Live data from Hacker News

Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

positech.co.uk

11–20 of 245 posts

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#11

This idea to stalk customers in Facebook is scary, but why don't other companies (let's say the home appliances manufacteres) do the same trick? Is it effective only for some niches?

because customer engagement in paramount in gaming - it's about attracting whales and getting them to stick with your games / app platform. you want your whales to be playing the game multiple times per day and buying stuff almost daily. that benefits from constant reinforcement advertising.

in comparison, even the most engagement demanding 'traditional companies' don't need that same level of saturation / customer understanding - if you buy a home appliance, you will buy another in (say) 5 years.

CLV > CAC baby

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#12
> "We need to reign this stuff in. Its not just psychological warfare, but warfare where you, the customer, are woefully outgunned, and losing. Some people are losing catastrophically."

I strongly disagree with this statement. I am very aware of the psychology behind marketing and advertising, and anyone with half an interest in it has probably read Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders, which was released, oh, 58 years ago. People know what pushes their buttons, too, and we have a name for it: interest. Not "manipulation". Certainly not "psychological warfare".

Marketing and advertising might seem to be refined in this dopamine-heavy, short-attention-span social gaming age, but this shit has been around as long as humanity itself has existed. Some people have better impulse control than others; it's not the state's job to regulate the impulses of their populaces, or regulate systems that know how to manipulate them. It's a slippery slope that would take down the entirety of marketing and advertising as an industry, an industry which is pretty much necessary for the vast majority of the citizenry to even know what is out there to purchase.

Furthermore, how would one even decide where the line between manipulative consumption and social signaling is? Some people want to own all the capital ships; they have some social hierarchy in some subculture standing upon it. Should I regulate that, too, and force them to have the same consumption values and preferences that I do? Should we take this a step further and ban all vices? Let's see how fast American society would fall apart if we banned alcohol again.

FWIW, I hate consumerism and advertising. I block ads everywhere, I hate big branded items, I don't know the last time I bought something from an ad. Just because I feel this way, I don't go around trying to violently force that opinion upon others by begging the state to do it for me.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#13

> "We need to reign this stuff in. Its not just psychological warfare, but warfare where you, the customer, are woefully outgunned, and losing. Some people are losing catastrophically." I strongly disagree with this statement. I am very aware of the psychology behind marketing and advertising, and anyone with half an interest in it has probably read Vance Packard's The Hidden Persuaders , which was released, oh, 58 y…

Well Said.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#14
“We take Facebook stalking to a whole new level. You spend enough money, we will friend you. Not officially, but with a fake account. Maybe it’s a hot girl who shows too much cleavage? That’s us. We learned as much before friending you, but once you let us in, we have the keys to the kingdom.”

Discussed previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10239931

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#15
post #6

I don't think I've ever thought of "addictive" as a positive attribute to a game. Reddit and HN are addictive, I want entertainment that I can leave when I want and that has depth.

I don't play games, but my roommate does for several hours every day. I asked him about it and he said he loves being immersed in it, and finds it much more engaging than other forms of entertainment, such as watching a movie. I wouldn't call him "addicted" though. We hang out all the time, and I never see the sort of desperation that the author describes.

...

Are there specific genre's of games that have the sorts of traps the author describes? A giant achievement screen sounds like it could be in any game, but I'd be curious to hear of any patterns recognized by others.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#16

This post is a bit rambly and doesn't make its case particularly well. I think the case is better made implicitly by reviews of games like Game of War: Fire Age. They are designed to be addictive and get players to spend literally thousands of pounds (or dollars) on microtransactions. They have ruined lives. Particular attention should be paid to games which advertise microtransactions to children.

Particular attention should be paid to the parental controls available in every mobile OS out there.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#18
I really don't understand the opening rant against Star Citizen. This is a game that quite literally would not even have started production if it weren't for crowd sourcing because the big boys are too busy cramming the next Call of Duty down everyone's throats than taking chances on interesting new IPs. If Star Citizen never materializes it will still have done the gaming industry a huge service by signaling to the other companies out there that a huge, verifiable demand exists for that style of game.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#19

This post is a bit rambly and doesn't make its case particularly well. I think the case is better made implicitly by reviews of games like Game of War: Fire Age. They are designed to be addictive and get players to spend literally thousands of pounds (or dollars) on microtransactions. They have ruined lives. Particular attention should be paid to games which advertise microtransactions to children.

Particular attention should be paid to the parental controls available in every mobile OS out there.

Not particularly helpful if the whale is a grown adult.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#20
post #9

This idea to stalk customers in Facebook is scary, but why don't other companies (let's say the home appliances manufacteres) do the same trick? Is it effective only for some niches?

Nest tries to increase your emotional engagement with your thermostat, a tough sell at which they've had some success. Then they can sell you a home monitoring system and additional home automation. The gambling industry is scarily good at this.

You can potentially do cool things with cloud connected home control/monitoring devices. In short, I would never ever buy a cloud connected home control/monitoring.

Why?

Suppose you have an IoT device in your bedroom that uploads CO2 values (of course it may also do something useful too such us showing this data to you or regulating the ventilation).

Now the rate of CO2 production depends on bodily activities. More activity means more CO2 production. I suppose that you agree that having this information you more or less are capable to deduce when a couple has sex.

This means that we could calculate a metric how much sex is going on and relate it to a specific user.

Suppose that we detect that the rate of sex has gone down by 20 (a made up number dependant of our model). We can now sell this information.

This information is for example useful perhaps for a psychologist who wants to sell you counselling.

But it is even more interesting for the divorce lawyers who now could prey on couples having period of difficulty in their sex lives.

Even more, this information could be made more valuable by some additional influence. For example feeding the user with articles related to marital happiness and sex life.

The same thing could be probably aslo implemented within a thermostat with a precise enough temperature sensor.

Post reply on HN