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Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

positech.co.uk

201–210 of 245 posts

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#201
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you mistook my comment for support of the current drug control system in the United States, when I really said nothing of the sort. The purpose of a drug policy is (ostensibly) and has always been to reduce consumption rates -- look at any of the public support / speeches since the policies were begun (going back to Temperance / Prohibition). That that purpose is ill served by the current effective policy h…

The purpose of a drug policy is (ostensibly) and has always been to reduce consumption rates I should have said effective drug policy. Focusing on consumption rates is indeed what most people do, and it's completely wrong. Are you saying there's no potential at which a drug should be illegal? Hypothetically speaking, no. In practice, all attempts at providing classifications for which drugs to ban and which to keep l…

>> Are you saying there's no potential at which a drug should be illegal?

> Hypothetically speaking, no. In practice, all attempts at providing classifications for which drugs to ban and which to keep legal are based on purely subjective and unscientific slippery slopes. With such a variety of narcotics, it's practically inevitable to see such regressions.

What?! There's certainly some misclassifications due to political meddling with the DEA (should be rolled into the FDA, imho), but how is quantitative addictiveness measured in animal models (and in humans!) a "purely subjective and unscientific slippy slope"? Cocaine is more addictive than acetaminophen. Ignoring that fact is just as bad policy as anything you're arguing against. And yes, I agree with the Controlled Substances Act that addictiveness + medical utility is a decent litmus for the social good or lack thereof realized by access to a drug.

>> if addictive drugs were legal and fully unregulated, who do you think the majority of the profits would go to? Hint: Novartis, Pfizer, Roche, Sanofi, Merck...

> Oh, so you'd rather they go to Los Zetas and Sinaloa Cartel?

Honestly, faced with two evils, yes. Mexican and South American cartels don't have the option of running media advertisements or legal protections for their organizations.

If my sources are correct, Novartis has about USD$50b total revenue in 2014. A rough estimate of the total US illegal drug market is ~$100b. If the US has political trouble with existing legal contributions from drug companies, do you really want to see what our system looks like when we deregulate the market and add that money in? (Yes, revenue would decrease due to availability and competition, but use would likely increase due to legality)

>> Do you really trust them to freely market a compound that has 10%+ addiction capture rate?

We already do so for a variety of psychotropics, analgesics and so forth [...] Yet the cost of vulnerable people getting high off over-the-counter drugs is pretty negligible. It takes no effort for a teen to dose themselves off DXM in cough syrup.

DXM hasn't been found to be physically addictive.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#202
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you are. No, I am not. You're seeing binary where there is none. My point is not to abolish the notion of personal responsibility, but to acknowledge that there is more to human behavior and decision making than cold, rational free will. > When you get to micromanaging such trivialities, there's no limit what a planner's mentality will settle on next. This is a slippery slope argument. > It is absolutely not fr…

I do not believe that the property owner may do whatever they wish within their property. Then you don't really support property rights. I mean, certainly, property owners must be within the bounds of the common and civil law framework of their jurisdiction. Limiting how property is internally arranged is a wholly different matter, it's a direct veto on how someone schedules their production structure for no reason b…

The salient point here is the massive disconnect most people carry around in their heads. If presented with a problem, the automatic response of most people is to get the government to fix it. If you quiz the same people on something their government does well, you're unlikely to get a clear answer. Anytime you propose a private solution to a problem, people will get upset and say 'you can't make a profit from that'. But again, what are government employees than people making a profit on the trade of their time? We are all aware of government employees who have traded their way into highly paid, unsackable positions. Are these people more or less moral than a small business owner who takes home a similar amount of pay?

I don't know when the knee jerk of 'regulate it' came in, despite decades of evidence of failure and unintended consequences from that same instinct.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#203
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of a drug policy is (ostensibly) and has always been to reduce consumption rates I should have said effective drug policy. Focusing on consumption rates is indeed what most people do, and it's completely wrong. Are you saying there's no potential at which a drug should be illegal? Hypothetically speaking, no. In practice, all attempts at providing classifications for which drugs to ban and which to keep l…

>> Are you saying there's no potential at which a drug should be illegal? > Hypothetically speaking, no. In practice, all attempts at providing classifications for which drugs to ban and which to keep legal are based on purely subjective and unscientific slippery slopes. With such a variety of narcotics, it's practically inevitable to see such regressions. What?! There's certainly some misclassifications due to polit…

Unbelievable.

You have no problem with wide-scale organized crime networks who engage in brutal acts of terror controlling the drug enterprise, nope. It's the evil capitalist producers exploiting the stupid proles with their advertising. Horrifying. No, the cartels don't have options of using legal protections because the illegal ones are much more effective in terms of securing obedience, and destructive.

If your only criterion of a drug's adverse effects is addictive potency, then your criteria are critically flawed and next to worthless. Something not inducing a physical dependence doesn't mean psychological addiction does not exist, though of course I oppose bans on either grounds. Addictive potential is but one factor of many.

I'm becoming convinced your opposition to legalization is not at all based on a cost-benefit analysis of the public welfare, but rather on a kneejerk fear of capitalism and voluntary association. Your use of the word "deregulate" as somehow being a scary detriment seems to corroborate this.

It's quite disgusting that you denigrate and despise voluntary association between consenting individuals so much that you'd prefer cartels slaughtering and burning villages just so mean scary capitalists with their evil advertising rays of doom don't influence the opinions of the public, whom you clearly regard as morons incapable of critical thought. It is then unsurprising you advocate what you do if that's where you come from.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#204
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic in the context of a discussion of vices and addiction, though now understandable (apologies for my lack of knowledge of 70s games & compiler names!) echo "WalterBright" | sed 's/Bright/White/'

> my lack of knowledge of 70s games Prepare for enlightenment: http://www.classicempire.com

And source available too! Thanks for the link.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#205

I wonder how i is that South Park did a great episode[0] on this subject of addiction to freemium games, and neither the post nor anyone in over 100 episodes mentioned this. Is South Park completely passé? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemium_Isn%27t_Free

It is becoming more and more current and relevant. I'm assuming you saw the current 19th season. If you didn't see it, or at least the last three episodes that form a "trilogy" or sorts, and talk about online ads and ad-blockers.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#206
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Are you saying there's no potential at which a drug should be illegal? > Hypothetically speaking, no. In practice, all attempts at providing classifications for which drugs to ban and which to keep legal are based on purely subjective and unscientific slippery slopes. With such a variety of narcotics, it's practically inevitable to see such regressions. What?! There's certainly some misclassifications due to polit…

Unbelievable. You have no problem with wide-scale organized crime networks who engage in brutal acts of terror controlling the drug enterprise, nope. It's the evil capitalist producers exploiting the stupid proles with their advertising. Horrifying. No, the cartels don't have options of using legal protections because the illegal ones are much more effective in terms of securing obedience, and destructive. If your on…

... you really took "Honestly, faced with two evils, yes." and ran with it, didn't you? If you want to misinterpret my remarks so I'm a better straw man to argue against, not sure there's much more to discuss.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#207
post #150
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your opinion there's nothing a gaming or marketing company can do that's legal now, but really shouldn't be? I'm also not buying that it's a slippery slope and banning, say, cross compiling profiles on customers from different, unrelated platforms would "take down the entirety of marketing and advertising as an industry". In capitalism, companies will do everything within the legal framework to make more money.…

Society already had this discussion and gambling is highly regulated for a large number of reasons. Some games have destroyed lives, and enabling that is not in society's best interst. PS: We can fantasize about people being rational, but reality disagrees.

> PS: We can fantasize about people being rational, but reality disagrees.

I worry that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. That the less you treat people as rational beings responsible for their own decisions, the less rational and responsible they will be. It might already be happening, with victimitis in American politics being one of the most visible outcomes.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#208
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unbelievable. You have no problem with wide-scale organized crime networks who engage in brutal acts of terror controlling the drug enterprise, nope. It's the evil capitalist producers exploiting the stupid proles with their advertising. Horrifying. No, the cartels don't have options of using legal protections because the illegal ones are much more effective in terms of securing obedience, and destructive. If your on…

... you really took "Honestly, faced with two evils, yes." and ran with it, didn't you? If you want to misinterpret my remarks so I'm a better straw man to argue against, not sure there's much more to discuss.

My objections are a) there is so much more to a drug than how addictive it is, b) no one said anything about deregulation per se (you can have a regulated legal market), c) your analysis has an implicit anti-capitalistic and snobbish bias against the public to make its own decisions, d) it isn't even true that only huge corporate players will have a hand, especially in drugs that have a very low barrier to entry in cultivating such as cannabis, e) your argument from the ill-defined "medical utility" ignores that illegality hampers medical research to lesser or greater extent, f) you are ignoring regulatory capture is a significant issue in pharma company troubles and g) you clearly do not understand public choice theory.

Though I think it's clear you believe in copious use of intervention against individuals and have a hatred or fear of capitalism and free association in order to make such a batshit argument as arguing for cartel violence and regional destabilization because the prospect of corporate profits terrifies you so much.

EDIT: Scanning your post history, you make a reference to "the final solution to the capitalist bourgeoise swine". You might have been facetious at that time, but I believe it reflects a general attitude you hold that is spiteful. I hope you at least do not believe in discredited economic doctrines such as tendency for the rate of profit to fall, or labor theory of value.

EDIT #2: You also believe that free market players are purely profit-maximizing "with behavior only moderated by applicable government regulations". This is plain false, even by a left-leaning Post-Keynesian analysis. You also again do not understand public choice theory in the slightest and how endogenous regulations emerge by transaction costs and private property (e.g. Coase theorem).

You hold a lot of fallacies.

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#209
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic username, given the conversation topic. ;) While yours may be a true experience: statistics. I'm not sure a personal experience poll on an entrepreneurial technology news site is the best place for a representative sample of people with low willpower. And social psych findings have born out that are a lot of easily manipulated levers to reliably influence people's behavior in an intentional way. To me, it's no…

>people with Fort Knox reserves of willpower In my case, it has nothing whatsoever to do with willpower. It's that video games bore me.

You. Are. Not. The. Audience.

You are just one of the costs of doing a freemium business. Like the alcohol industry, the game is really targeted towards the psychologically vulnerable who represent most of the revenues.

The game is boring by design. Actually its just barely interesting enough to keep the target audience playing, but not so interesting that it stops them from paying to get their psychological reward. These games are basically crack which you can legally sell to kids.

There is a great south park episode that illustrates this phenomenon. Its very well done. You should watch it.

http://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s18e06-freemium-isnt-f...

Re: Hi, I’m from the games industry. Governments, please stop us

#210
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic in the context of a discussion of vices and addiction, though now understandable (apologies for my lack of knowledge of 70s games & compiler names!) echo "WalterBright" | sed 's/Bright/White/'

> my lack of knowledge of 70s games Prepare for enlightenment: http://www.classicempire.com

Speaking of destructive social manipulation, your game destroyed my grade in LISP (or was it C++?) when I discovered Empire on a (Sun?) workstation in the computer lab.

But you probably already know all that from on the extensive profile you built on me.

Thank you. :)

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