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WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

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Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#21

Post by spydertennis »

BRadmin wrote: post #18
asb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've answered this concern on Twitter: "all the planned features are still free! we've developed some new awesome premium features that we're planning on charging for." http://twitter.com/wakemate/status/8102380070

In the email they mention delays due to new innovations -- so basically, I won't be getting my product on time because they were developing a premium service I didn't know about and will now have to pay for to benefit. Doesn't seem right...

I'm sorry if it seemed that way. The new features are in software and the delays are mostly hardware related. I would be pissed too if it was delayed because we were trying to squeeze more money out of you. That's not the case.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#22

Post by besologic »

spydertennis wrote: post #20
maxklein wrote: post #12

I want my money back, and I'm going to request it till they do. I feel cheated - fitbit is shipping, and what the hell is this bullshit about premium analytics?! When I pre-ordered there was no indication that there was going to be a monthly fee - and now they are delayed and can't even say when it will appear. And they are talking of MONTHS of delay? I was really impressed when I first saw the company, but my mood h…

I'm really sorry you feel that way. Of course if you want your money back we have no problem refunding your 5 dollars. We've developed some great premium features in addition to the existing product. The main features are still free. We're working really hard to get the product out. It's difficult to launch quickly and iterate with hardware and we want the product to be amazing. I can promise that it will definitely…

Part of the reason why there is some backlash against this announcement isn't so much against that it's going to be late, but that the monthly fee was a complete surprise.

It's totally normal (and encouraged!) to have premium features, but the shipping delayed announcement went like this:

* Hey peoples are really excited about wakemate! * We've made some breakthroughs in the development of wakemate that makes it more awesome than before (yay!) * Because we've been making it better it's going to be delayed, and we're going to compensate the delay by giving you free access to the premium analytics features. (Wait, what? What premium analytics features?)

I think this announcement would have been received better if the premium features had been mentioned in the same paragraph announcing all the breakthroughs. The premium feature could have been presented as benefit of these breakthroughs (with the increased feature set, we can now charge for value), but because it was first mentioned as part of compensation of the delayed release, it comes across as negative.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#23

Post by BRadmin »

spydertennis wrote: post #21
BRadmin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the email they mention delays due to new innovations -- so basically, I won't be getting my product on time because they were developing a premium service I didn't know about and will now have to pay for to benefit. Doesn't seem right...

I'm sorry if it seemed that way. The new features are in software and the delays are mostly hardware related. I would be pissed too if it was delayed because we were trying to squeeze more money out of you. That's not the case.

Appreciate the clarification.

I think the non-conciliatory tone and some of the content from your email is a little off-putting to a lot of folks.

Whereas most people were expecting to receive an actual product within a week or two, we're now told we'll have to wait indefinitely; words like "tentatively" "first batch" and "as early as" convey this.

If we're waiting because the hardware got better, give us some specifics instead of keeping it vague. I was under the impression the WakeMate was already awesome -- if it's delayed, tell me what you've been working on and improving to show me why I should still be excited about this, why you guys did me a favor by delaying.

The delay email is also functioning as an introduction to PREMIUM features (at a cost) that nobody was aware of, which feels out of place in the context of the message's initial intent.

I'm sure you guys are working hard and round the clock, but unfortunately we don't get to see and experience that, live and breath the company with you guys. All we're aware of is the image you convey in the few paragraphs you send to us. As a company that people have invested in, that has taken money from soon-to-be customers, you need to be ultra-cognizant of how you present to us.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#24

Post by maxklein »

asb wrote: post #17
lonestar wrote: post #10

Perhaps they should have announced the monthly fees before the delay. I'm more than a little disappointed to find out that I'm not getting it on time, and that I might unexpectedly have to pay a monthly fee once it does ship.

They've answered this concern on Twitter: "all the planned features are still free! we've developed some new awesome premium features that we're planning on charging for." http://twitter.com/wakemate/status/8102380070

This is pissing me off more and more. How do I know that these "premium" features are not the actual features that I want? They may just give me the bare minimum, and since I already invested $50, they now try to squeeze more money out of me by withholding the good stuff.

Tell me this stuff before you make me pre-order. Let me be aware what I am getting into. I thought that the hardware is what you pay for, and the website and all awesome upgrades would be free. But it seems the hardware is just the entry ticket, then they will do the usual - premium, solo, business bullshit to try to make me pay them $99 a month or whatever.

This is bullcrap, and I feel it is dishonest marketing. I would not be pissed off if they just asked me to put my email on a list. But they asked me to give then $5! Then turn around and stab me in the back. No, I don't want your product anymore.

When I give you money, we have entered into a very different kind of relationship, and you have given me the right to get pissed off about you and complain on the internet.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#25

Post by teej »

maxklein wrote: post #24
asb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've answered this concern on Twitter: "all the planned features are still free! we've developed some new awesome premium features that we're planning on charging for." http://twitter.com/wakemate/status/8102380070

This is pissing me off more and more. How do I know that these "premium" features are not the actual features that I want? They may just give me the bare minimum, and since I already invested $50, they now try to squeeze more money out of me by withholding the good stuff. Tell me this stuff before you make me pre-order. Let me be aware what I am getting into. I thought that the hardware is what you pay for, and the w…

The negative tone in this thread is incredibly out of character of Hacker News. What happened to civility?

If you have a problem with the way they handled these delays, I can understand. Getting delayed -sucks- and getting a crappy response sucks worse. It reminds me of dealing with airlines - they already have my money and can't manage to give me a straight answer.

But please consider giving these guys a break. Hardware is hard! It's a delicate balance between software and electrical engineers. You can't avoid outsourcing production - a process that's hard to manage for cost and quality standards. You don't just hack a site over a weekend and go from there. It takes tons of planning and lots of risks. It is not easy.

If you don't like it, at least give them the benefit of common curtesy. Email them sternly and politely and request your money back. Problem solved.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#26

Post by maxklein »

teej wrote: post #25
maxklein wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pissing me off more and more. How do I know that these "premium" features are not the actual features that I want? They may just give me the bare minimum, and since I already invested $50, they now try to squeeze more money out of me by withholding the good stuff. Tell me this stuff before you make me pre-order. Let me be aware what I am getting into. I thought that the hardware is what you pay for, and the w…

The negative tone in this thread is incredibly out of character of Hacker News. What happened to civility? If you have a problem with the way they handled these delays, I can understand. Getting delayed -sucks- and getting a crappy response sucks worse. It reminds me of dealing with airlines - they already have my money and can't manage to give me a straight answer. But please consider giving these guys a break. Hard…

You know why I'm harsh now? Because this is just a small community. They are dealing with a mass-market product - if they discover the things that piss off customers now, they will know better how to do things in the future.

Yes, hardware is hard, but if you coddle a business then it will grow in expectancy that things will just fall in their lap. They made a serious mistake - it annoys me, and I'm telling them. If they think that I am wrong for saying my opinion, then they will repeat the mistake and they will piss off more customers that way.

I was really really a big fan of their approach when they launched. But they fucked it up. They did something wrong, and because they belong to this community, we could pat them on the back and say - oh you'll do better next time - but the customers do not belong to this community. The customers don't give a shit who YC or PG are, all they know is this same feeling I am feeling now. And they will convey the same impression to their friends, other potential customers.

WakeMate is not launching a new concept. They are entering a market with established competitors. They need some tough love, because they just played bad with their greatest asset.

Their greatest asset is the fact that they have a direct line to the early adopter community, through this site and through the YC program. This social network is what they can use to leapfrog over competition. Apart from that, they have little compared to FitBit and others.

If they mess with their core advantage, people have to let them know. There HAS to be a negative tone so that they know they fucked up. If we are all nice and dandy, then they will merrily go on whistling down the road till they discover that the cliff started a few steps back.

They fucked up. I am angry. I am communicating this to them, so that they know how what they did makes their customers feel.

If you feel it is not neccessary to communicate this to them, then it is you doing them a disservice.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#27

Post by Flankk »

spydertennis wrote: post #20
maxklein wrote: post #12

I want my money back, and I'm going to request it till they do. I feel cheated - fitbit is shipping, and what the hell is this bullshit about premium analytics?! When I pre-ordered there was no indication that there was going to be a monthly fee - and now they are delayed and can't even say when it will appear. And they are talking of MONTHS of delay? I was really impressed when I first saw the company, but my mood h…

I'm really sorry you feel that way. Of course if you want your money back we have no problem refunding your 5 dollars. We've developed some great premium features in addition to the existing product. The main features are still free. We're working really hard to get the product out. It's difficult to launch quickly and iterate with hardware and we want the product to be amazing. I can promise that it will definitely…

Why are you apologizing for them feeling that way? It seems to me like everyone is reacting in the same way. Perhaps you should apologize for your own behavior.

I don't think the delay is near as bad as the way you guys are handling it. I'm a bit taken aback and I haven't even invested in your product. If it were my company, everyone would be refunded their $5 since they pre-ordered to receive their product on time. I would certainly not offer (what appears as) contrived premium features.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#28

Post by jpcx01 »

Was excited about WakeMate, so much so that I ended up just buying a Zeo. Been using it as an alarm clock for about a month now, and gotta say, its incredible. It basically wakes you up every morning when it detects you are already in light sleep. Been a big morning changer for me since I started using it.

If WakeMate can provide anything close to Zeo for what they're charging (much much less), I think they'll do well.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#29

Post by jacquesm »

lonestar wrote: post #10

Perhaps they should have announced the monthly fees before the delay. I'm more than a little disappointed to find out that I'm not getting it on time, and that I might unexpectedly have to pay a monthly fee once it does ship.

Any piece of hardware that has a contrived monthly fee attached to it should be avoided.

Re: WakeMate (YC S09) Shipping Delayed

#30

Post by maxklein »

spydertennis wrote: post #20
maxklein wrote: post #12

I want my money back, and I'm going to request it till they do. I feel cheated - fitbit is shipping, and what the hell is this bullshit about premium analytics?! When I pre-ordered there was no indication that there was going to be a monthly fee - and now they are delayed and can't even say when it will appear. And they are talking of MONTHS of delay? I was really impressed when I first saw the company, but my mood h…

I'm really sorry you feel that way. Of course if you want your money back we have no problem refunding your 5 dollars. We've developed some great premium features in addition to the existing product. The main features are still free. We're working really hard to get the product out. It's difficult to launch quickly and iterate with hardware and we want the product to be amazing. I can promise that it will definitely…

Your tone is a bit incorrect for the particular situation. But whatever makes you happy. Just give me back my $5, I'll buy myself a beer this evening at a bar.
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