If everybody has a college degrees, then all jobs would indeed go to people with a college degree. But even then, it would still not say anything about the likelihood to get a job, even if you hold a college degree. "If you get a college degree, you will get a job" is and has always been a fallacy.
The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
81–90 of 104 posts
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#82Wouldn't it make more sense to use the ratio of income to housing costs in the analysis instead of raw income numbers? Houses can easily be 10-20x as expensive depending on where in the us you live.
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#83Measuring "class" by income distribution measures like this kind of misses the point; more accurately this is "Most Americans no longer fit a particular definition of 'middle income'". Class distinctions are about significant qualitative distinctions, not points on a simple quantitative distribution. A reasonable upper/middle/lower class distinction could be made where the upper class has capital assets that they can…
> This would roughly correspond with the traditional ideas of "class".
That's the thing though. The concept of social class in the US doesn't. So while I agree with you, there's nothing strange with the article.
"Social class in the United States is a controversial issue, having many competing definitions, models, and even disagreements over its very existence. Many Americans believe in a simple three-class model that includes the "rich", the "middle class", and the "poor". More complex models that have been proposed describe as many as a dozen class levels; while still others deny the very existence, in the European sense, of 'social class' in American society."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Sta...
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think "middle class" is "working class (by your definition) but headed out". That is, you are middle class if you are working and making enough by doing so to start accumulating capital. If you're working, and using your surplus to accumulate toys, you're just a wealthier version of lower class (also a not very wise one, in my opinion).
Is your have tons of disposable income and you blow it on toys, you aren't lower class. You're just really bad at managing your money. It's absurd to try to define middle class by behavior rather than means. Someone making 100k/year is absolutely not lower class, regardless of whether they blow all their money on frivolous stuff.
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Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me it's a simpler, binary question: You're either rely on your own labor for a living (in other words, you're N missed paychecks away from zero), or you don't rely on your own labor. Some people think if their number "N" is high enough they can call themselves "middle class" to distinguish themselves from poorer people, but it's a small distinction. At the end of the day, you either have to work for a living or yo…
Physical vs. mental labor (aka blue collar and service vs. white collar) is what distinguishes lower and middle class and creates the third category. Lower class = your income relies on your physical labor Middle class = your income relies on your mental labor Upper class = your income relies on your capital and others' labor
i would say there's a 4th class, a working entrepreneur who's basically "all of the above".
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Some people think if their number "N" is high enough they can call themselves "middle class" to distinguish themselves from poorer people, but it's a small distinction That isn't true. I work for a living but I also accumulate 5 figures of capital every year, do that for 20-25 years, and I don't have to work for a living anymore. Working class folks don't really have that option. > Sure you may have more toys than…
That is poor financial planning. If you are middle income, you should be saving money so you don't have to work for a living instead of buying more toys. That is an entirely subjective personal preference. If your goal is to be able to retire early and live off your savings, go ahead. However, if your goal is to also live before you retire and you understand that the only value of money is in the things you value tha…
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Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Some people think if their number "N" is high enough they can call themselves "middle class" to distinguish themselves from poorer people, but it's a small distinction That isn't true. I work for a living but I also accumulate 5 figures of capital every year, do that for 20-25 years, and I don't have to work for a living anymore. Working class folks don't really have that option. > Sure you may have more toys than…
That is poor financial planning. If you are middle income, you should be saving money so you don't have to work for a living instead of buying more toys. That is an entirely subjective personal preference. If your goal is to be able to retire early and live off your savings, go ahead. However, if your goal is to also live before you retire and you understand that the only value of money is in the things you value tha…
don't take these self-important penny-pinchers you find on hn too seriously. their condescension stems from a fundamental insecurity of some sort that they're projecting onto others, it's hard to put a finger on but it's definitely there.
they don't know anyone's situation, they just know spending money on things you like is bad. it's like some kind of alternative religious orthodoxy. imagine if they had the same attitudes about the kind of books you read or the people you hang out with (aka how you spend your time, and time=money)
people should do whatever the hell they want to do with their own money, just like their own time.
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me it's a simpler, binary question: You're either rely on your own labor for a living (in other words, you're N missed paychecks away from zero), or you don't rely on your own labor. Some people think if their number "N" is high enough they can call themselves "middle class" to distinguish themselves from poorer people, but it's a small distinction. At the end of the day, you either have to work for a living or yo…
Physical vs. mental labor (aka blue collar and service vs. white collar) is what distinguishes lower and middle class and creates the third category. Lower class = your income relies on your physical labor Middle class = your income relies on your mental labor Upper class = your income relies on your capital and others' labor
I think this is a somewhat outdated view of classes, at least in our current 'Western' societies. I'm reminded of this article by the BBC that argues that there are seven classes, for example:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21953364
It strikes me a bit as the traditional division of 'left' and 'right' in politics that, at least according to multiple professors in my PolSci classes, is not really accurate. Yet it's (understandably) still a commonly used method of classifying politics.
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#89Lots of hocus-pocus in these comments looking for a qualitative measure of class. The only meaningful definition is quantitative. Do we still need to explain why? This fact is the fundamental subtext of all journalism and art since mid 19C.
Re: The Tipping Point: Most Americans No Longer Are Middle Class
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Physical vs. mental labor (aka blue collar and service vs. white collar) is what distinguishes lower and middle class and creates the third category. Lower class = your income relies on your physical labor Middle class = your income relies on your mental labor Upper class = your income relies on your capital and others' labor
i would say there's a 4th class, a working entrepreneur who's basically "all of the above".
The traditional term for this is 'petit bourgeois'.