Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

blogs.windows.com

261–270 of 283 posts

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#261
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has about 120 times the number of employees that Mozilla has. That's an insane number. If they consider the browser remotely important, they can put much more resources behind it than Mozilla ever can. Only things like the Mythical Man Month save Mozilla a bit here.

[deleted]

...that is impressive.

Now I know that, I'm actually looking forward to playing with the engine more than before - a concentrated braintrust of a few skilled engineers is always more ideal than a sprawling mass of seagulls (to borrow ideology from Finding Nemo :P).

The flip side, of course, is that all of you have to keep your game up to quite a high degree or you're out. Respect. (I think what the Edge team as a whole has managed is really amazing - I mean, a brand new browser...)

[Also... I have to ask... I've been wondering since before this announcement: is it an even remotely vague possibility that I'll ever able to natively run EdgeHTML on FreeBSD or Linux one day in the distant future, source or binary? :D]

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you recommend a few articles?

On v8 right? This one is probably the best broad overview: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/speed/v8/ To get into the gory details google Vyacheslav Egorov - he's a v8 engineer with a number of talks on YouTube, presentation slides, and blog posts on v8 internals. He also maintains a tool called IRhydra, that lets you examine functions after they've been compiled into v8's internal representation.

I am glad you find my stuff useful enough to recommend it to other people! Thanks.

I just wanted to point out a minor detail: I am an ex-V8 engineer - I have not been working on V8 since 2012.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#263
post #2

Wow. They're really serious about changing their philosophy aren't they. Using Github for their stuff, making and open sourcing Visual Studio Code, other stuff I can't remember, and now this.

I was literally blown away by Visual Studio Code. It is an amazing editor. I haven't opened sublime since.

I wish it could keep all the file info between quiting/opening and auto-saving similar to the way that sublime does.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#264
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is next for Mozilla? Sounds like they don't have much going in their favor at the moment.

The Mozilla project was wrongheaded from the start. Anyone who genuinely believed in open source could have known that KHTML was better quality code and so it proved, despite vastly greater resources being poured into the terrible Netscape codebase. (I can't help thinking this was largely jingoistic Americans preferring an American project). Some good things have come out of Mozilla-the-organisation - I very much hop…

It was already being rewritten as Gecko, which also reminds me of the Mariner fiasco which is part of why Netscape 4 stuck for so long.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively you can just ask any linguist, and they'll assure you using "literally" for effect is not just ages old and used by lots of prominent writers, but also an absolutely legitimate use of language, typical of the inventiveness that moves language forward, and a use that has many more similar examples that people who complain about it wont think twice about using. > Otherwise I'll just assume that since they…

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/08/literally/ > It comes down to that oft-spoke mantra – language changes. Our job is to document that for better or for worse. Except for us, there is no worse. We have to look at language objectively and dispassionately. That's a bit like the difference between a helper taking blood samples and the doctor, not to mention a loved one. Linguists can be lovers of language and ph…

>That's a bit like the difference between a helper taking blood samples and the doctor, not to mention a loved one. Linguists can be lovers of language and philosophers, but they don't have to be, they just measure what's there. Language is made up by billions of people using it, and I consider my rejection of parts of it a curative effort. So I ask, with as much right as any other single human being using language: how does this particular "invention" move language forward? That other people might say it does, without anyone (I could find) giving an argument how it does, doesn't really help.

One problem is that you could say it with any previous form of the language. Tons of the words you take for granted and accept evolved in a similar way. So why is "literally" bad and "awful" (worthy of awe originally) ok? The only honest answer would be "because it happened before my time, and I was always used to that".

A second problem is the question itself: "how does this particular "invention" move language forward?". If it's used by the masses (as opposed to being a random error by some person), then it moves language forward, period. Languages don't move forward by design, but organically, by people adopting this or that change or new structure. And for that to happen, the change needs to respond to some need.

The need doesn't need to be rational and kosher. E.g. "That word the most elegant way to minimally convey such meaning". It just has to serve the purposes of what it's adopted for, namely to help speakers convey their message (including meta information like impatience, anger, emphasis, scorn, passive aggressiveness, affection, concern, etc).

>Where, exactly, is "forward", here? Downstream? Even not gaming anymore, I noticed that "kids these days" tend to call low frame rates "lag". I still know what they mean, but I also consider it regression and impoverishment of language and more importantly thought. And while it's a silly example, I find it fascinating in a morbid way how things just get picked up and passed on.

The mistake here is that you have a preconceived notion of more detail translating to "better language" where the benefit in this case would be something else (e.g. succinctness or the ability to unify different but similar phenomena under a common term -- that is: abstraction.). Those are all legit benefits, and language needs to have mechanisms for that too (like we collapse all different kinds of cars, motorcycles etc into 'vehicles').

In this case, communication between gamers for such a trivial matter doesn't need much extra detail beyond "lag". OTOH, a team of game programmers would have a much expanded dictionary to discern between lag, low frame rates, various kinds of latency, etc.

>But then there is also simply being louder or gesturing more wildly, i.e. if "blown away" means "very impressed", then "literally blown away" means "really very impressed", right? But when we start "emphasizing" things that didn't actually happen the way we phrase them by going out of our way to say that they did happen the way we phrased them, we might end up having to use "actually literally" or something to flag the things that indeed happen the way we phrased them. Rinse, repeat, and I still don't see the point of even the first iteration.

The point of any iteration is that used language ("blown away") for example, loses its impact (intended impression), because people are used to hear it. When that happens you need to patch it with extra qualifiers to give the same strong impression that you want.

But we're going too far: we don't need to justify it. As with anything else in language, the fact that it happens is justification enough. It's like evolution -- you can't say a previous form of a language/organism was "better", but what's better changes with the environment and the times.

You could say that for individual organisms (individual speakers who misuse language in some ad-hoc personal way), since, but you can't criticize new _evolved_ forms of language as used by the masses.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#266
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has about 120 times the number of employees that Mozilla has. That's an insane number. If they consider the browser remotely important, they can put much more resources behind it than Mozilla ever can. Only things like the Mythical Man Month save Mozilla a bit here.

[deleted]

I have to apologise. but it shows.

I simply can't take this claim it has better coverage at face value.

because I only just finished testing a week or so ago and the js code we deploy that works on every platform from android through Linux mac ios and Windows.

is still mostly broken on edge

and doesn't even begin to work in ie.

so we will still be recommending users not to use edge or ie at this time.

that recommendation isn't one I make happily.

but windows machines make up such an insignificant part of the market now it's an easy business decision.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#267
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next Firefox Nightly build should get 84% on that page, much closer to Edge than Firefox 44 (74%). I work on SpiderMonkey and I'm super excited about this news. All JS engines have added more-or-less similar performance optimizations but often implemented differently and I'm really interested to see what the Chakra team did. I'd be happy to write a blog post on it next month, if people are interested.

Speaking as someone tuning a JS game, I focus on V8 over other engines because there are great articles around that explain in detail what v8 knows how to optimize, what causes functions to deopt, what kicks object property lookups into slow mode, etc. Articles explaining this for SpiderMonkey would be greatly appreciated!

FWIW, people in Mozilla are working on a "JIT coach", which will tell you if performance critical sections of your code aren't getting JITed, and why. I believe this is almost ready for use, though I'm not sure when it will be presented.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#268
post #264
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mozilla project was wrongheaded from the start. Anyone who genuinely believed in open source could have known that KHTML was better quality code and so it proved, despite vastly greater resources being poured into the terrible Netscape codebase. (I can't help thinking this was largely jingoistic Americans preferring an American project). Some good things have come out of Mozilla-the-organisation - I very much hop…

It was already being rewritten as Gecko, which also reminds me of the Mariner fiasco which is part of why Netscape 4 stuck for so long.

What do you mean by / what are you referring to with "it was already being rewritten as Gecko"? And what was the Mariner fiasco?

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#269
post #268
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was already being rewritten as Gecko, which also reminds me of the Mariner fiasco which is part of why Netscape 4 stuck for so long.

What do you mean by / what are you referring to with " it was already being rewritten as Gecko "? And what was the Mariner fiasco?

Mariner was an attempt to upgrade the old Netscape 4 codebase that got cancelled. Gecko/NGLayout was the new rewritten layout engine. WaSP pushed for this cancellation:

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=88

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=1524

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=1708

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#270
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing only typed arrays shouldn't be hard.

Shared memory in Javascript is a Bad Idea(tm). Run, don't walk, to your standards body, and tell them not to entertain such notions. You know what happens with shared typed arrays? Shared Uint8 arrays. You know what happens with shared Uint8 arrays? Multiple workers using JSON.parse. Do you want ants? Because this is how we get ants. :(

Why would anybody ever want to JSON.parse typed arrays from web workers when the parsed data (or unparsed strings) can be passed around directly? Strings are immutable and are not copied when you pass them around. I don't see your point.
Post reply on HN