Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

blogs.windows.com

251–260 of 283 posts

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote Shakespeare and/or Dickens so I can see whether their use of that word improves the passages, or carries any signal at all for that matter. Otherwise I'll just assume that since they wrote a lot, there's going to be some mediocre bits and padding in it. For all I know, they might simply not have paid attention.

Alternatively you can just ask any linguist, and they'll assure you using "literally" for effect is not just ages old and used by lots of prominent writers, but also an absolutely legitimate use of language, typical of the inventiveness that moves language forward, and a use that has many more similar examples that people who complain about it wont think twice about using. > Otherwise I'll just assume that since they…

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2013/08/literally/

> It comes down to that oft-spoke mantra – language changes. Our job is to document that for better or for worse. Except for us, there is no worse. We have to look at language objectively and dispassionately.

That's a bit like the difference between a helper taking blood samples and the doctor, not to mention a loved one. Linguists can be lovers of language and philosophers, but they don't have to be, they just measure what's there. Language is made up by billions of people using it, and I consider my rejection of parts of it a curative effort. So I ask, with as much right as any other single human being using language: how does this particular "invention" move language forward? That other people might say it does, without anyone (I could find) giving an argument how it does, doesn't really help.

Where, exactly, is "forward", here? Downstream? Even not gaming anymore, I noticed that "kids these days" tend to call low frame rates "lag". I still know what they mean, but I also consider it regression and impoverishment of language and more importantly thought. And while it's a silly example, I find it fascinating in a morbid way how things just get picked up and passed on. I observe similar dynamics with more serious things, like how words like "terrorism" or "war" get used. I think what it all really boils down to is that power in various doesn't (feel the) need to justify itself, and likewise people who say things most people have no problem with, don't ever have to stop to ask themselves what they are saying, and don't feel like they owe anyone going against the grain an explanation. And yes, nobody owes me one, but I'd still like one.

When someone asks me "Did you meet Peter at the party?", and Peter happened to be the person opening the door when I rang the doorbell at the house where the party was, I might say "He was literally the first person I met there.". But even that "use" is just because we've gotten so used to not meaning what we say how we say it, having to flag when we do.

> As for it carrying any signal, that's not something that can be refuted. It ALWAYS carries the signal of "emphasis" over the same phrase without it.

Emphasis can mean two different things. Saying "I don't care about your sports car" vs. "I don't care about your sports car" could mean that the speaker cares about something, it's just not the sports car. It's emphasis as in changing weights in relation to other weights.

But then there is also simply being louder or gesturing more wildly, i.e. if "blown away" means "very impressed", then "literally blown away" means "really very impressed", right? But when we start "emphasizing" things that didn't actually happen the way we phrase them by going out of our way to say that they did happen the way we phrased them, we might end up having to use "actually literally" or something to flag the things that indeed happen the way we phrased them. Rinse, repeat, and I still don't see the point of even the first iteration.

Earlier I read a sentence I consider very true and important:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/dec/04/column-c...

> When daily life requires turning a blind eye to the falsity of countless things we’re told, it weakens the power of language to sort truth from fiction.

This also applies to all the little exaggerations and cutesy things. They do add up. And yes, this is old as dirt, just like doublethink predates "Nineteen Eighty-Four". Thinking and talking clearly and truthfully is exceedingly rare, I myself can only do it in short bursts when I concentrate. But that doesn't mean it's not generally something to strive or, or to take lightly. We inherit and modify the tool set future generations will start out their attempts to grasp reality and/or rationalize their own atrocities with, depending on how well we do our job. We, like the previous generations, are abysmal at it. That someone has a brain fart is one thing, but that it then has centuries of tradition and makes it into the dictionary, that's our collective fault, and that everybody is in on it doesn't justify it in my books. That's just one more for the pile, really. There are so many things "most people do" or "most people are fine with", and they're not fine. And even supposed hypocrisy, i.e. me making those mistakes myself, doesn't change that, whenever I do catch such things, I edit it. And if I had more time, this comment would be a lot shorter :P

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Initially I thought Edge would just be IE with (yet another) skin, but I have to say, it's absurdly fast and lightweight. It's still not my main browser as I'm now too deeply entrenched in Chrome for development, but it makes me really happy to know they're actually pushing the web ahead.

Give the JavaScript Browser a go; is Edge render + Chakra, but has a faster starup - Also OSS by MS O_o https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/store/apps/javascript-browse...

To be fair that's a sample app which is part of a tutorial demonstrating the capabilities of the web platform on Windows 10.

https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/JSBrowser

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#254
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not all of us at Mozilla actually work on Firefox. I don't know the number but we work on a lot of different things.

Maybe keep more focus on Firefox then? As it has been losing ground for a decade or so, and without it there is no Mozilla. I see some crazy initiatives obviously doomed to fail (like the mobile OS), which are worrying. Coming up with a Servo based browser that's both more secure due to Rust AND faster due to parallel processing, and a better native-look-and-feel story (at least on the Mac) would be good to catch up…

I think that firefox has improved their dev tools significantly no? I thought that Chrome and Firefox were neck and neck on this at the moment? With some features better in one and some features better in the other.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#255
post #61

We have a bunch of laptops at school running Windows 10 with Edge. Students can't copy and paste into Google Docs while using Edge. Was this a deliberate choice by Microsoft to steer people away from Google products, or is it something more benign than that?

I know a guy who works on core web-dev stuff at Google. He tells me that Edge is often very quirky in very subtle ways. He's had to spend many , many hours diagnosing, reporting, and working around quirks in Edge. These quirks sometimes get fixed and sometimes do not, but are often not present in Internet Explorer.

We have a fairly large-ish JS codebase at work and from what I saw so far is that Edge's JS was never a problem. SVG rendering on the other hand is horribly broken currently for some cases.

That being said, since our JS is generated, it's purely ES5 since it still has to run on IE9. So maybe the weird cases are in the more modern JS parts we don't use.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#256
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had similar problems using Google Docs on Safari too, so I think it’s just a bug on Google’s side.

AIUI, Safari is the IE6 of the "Modern Web".

For the downvoters:

Go make friends with someone who works on Safari, then take them out for drinks. You'll understand why I'm saying what I'm saying. :)

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#258

As a mere mortal - How hard would it be for a day programmer to built something cool like an JavaScript engine ? I sometimes have crazy thoughts about the world ending. How hard would it be to built your own javascript engine from scratch ?

While at university I attended a "learn Scheme" summer course and it was taught by implementing your own Scheme interpreter (in Scheme). It is not that hard to implement a programming language, but making it perform well might be a completely different ballpark.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#259
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might make one question the underlying assumption that competition somehow can cause people to somehow magically become better (a concept many people have which makes no sense). In reality, competition changes how people allocate resources as they play a strategy game to not lose control over segments of the market they perceive as strategically important. It also causes them to lose their negotiation power in the…

So what is next for Mozilla? Sounds like they don't have much going in their favor at the moment.

The Mozilla project was wrongheaded from the start. Anyone who genuinely believed in open source could have known that KHTML was better quality code and so it proved, despite vastly greater resources being poured into the terrible Netscape codebase. (I can't help thinking this was largely jingoistic Americans preferring an American project).

Some good things have come out of Mozilla-the-organisation - I very much hope that Rust/Servo is a success. But when it actually comes to developing an open-source browser, the incentives of a donation-funded foundation like Mozilla are all wrong.

I don't know what the right way to fund open-source development is. Dual licensing has its share of failures. So does trying to make it a direct business. So do research grants. Partly it's just the tragedy of the commons. In my darkest days I wonder if open source is fundamentally doomed because it simply can't make the monetary incentives line up with good engineering practice.

Re: Microsoft Edge's JavaScript engine to go open-source

#260
post #10

I have a somewhat off topic question: is there anything in the design of Javascript that mandates single-threadedness? Could any Javascript engine implement threads? I'm asking because I'm wondering if Node.js's evented approach is the only way to do things.

No! Javascript the language and thread are not related. If you find a Javascript implemented over JVM like ringojs uses JVM threads to execute JavaScript in parallel. In which case you get both event based within thread, and multi-threaded at the same time.

http://ringojs.org/documentation/ringo_101/

Post reply on HN