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Jury Duty

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Re: Jury Duty

#221

Post by ckozlowski »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #220
ckozlowski wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An indictment is not a successful prosecution. And it does cost money...money, in my opinion is well spent, because in brings in skeptical people such as yourself with the power to check an overzealous prosecutor with simply arresting people on flimsy charges. There's no defense because no one has been charged; and if you decided that the prosecutor is full of shit, then it means an innocent person is not disrupted o…

>An indictment is not a successful prosecution. It can still ruin a life. The social consequences of being indited can be the worst part of some crimes. Especially for charges that people keep saying 'well better safe than sorry'.

Absolutely. That's why, as some people asked elsewhere, why there's no defense. Because they haven't been disturbed yet (in most cases). No reason to drag them in and suffer the social stigma because of some overzealous prosecutor's witch hunt.

Re: Jury Duty

#222

Post by shiro »

ramchip wrote: post #138
EdiX wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12 Tender Japaneses The only thing I can find googling this is a worldwar 2 aircraft carrier. Can I have the original title in romanji I want to see if it has been dubbed or subtitled.

Looks like it's called Juninin no yasashii nihonjin: http://imdb.com/title/tt0104330/

Yes, that's it. Thanks. Like 12 Angry Men, the original is a stage play.

Re: Jury Duty

#223

Post by alextgordon »

superuser2 wrote: post #216
_pmf_ wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a non American, the USA justice system honestly sounds like the worst possible system for justice imaginable. You just have to love a justice system where the police chief, the district attorney and the judge are political offices and must appeal to the masses.

Who would you rather they appeal to, and why is it more legitimate than the will of the governed?

In the UK, the Crown Prosecution Service is supposed to act in the public interest. Not indulge the public's every whim.

It's an imperfect system, but they do put a lot of care into weighing the different factors, far more than I ever will. I'm happy it's their job and not mine.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/docs/code_2013_accessibl...

Re: Jury Duty

#224

Post by fucking_tragedy »

thwyperson wrote: post #32
michael_storm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the defendant is guilty? What if he's innocent, but your refusal to help provide a strong defense causes him to be found guilty? Why do you presume to do the judge and jury's job for them, but with no access to the facts or judicial procedure? If prosecutors can ensure that a strong defense is impossible simply by accusing someone of an appropriately heinous crime, then the criminal justice system h…

Why do you presume to do the judge and jury's job for them, but with no access to the facts or judicial procedure? My other fear is that what happens when, with access to the facts or judicial procedure, I determine that the defendant actually is guilty. Please don't be complicit in that. We'll see.

If you get a call back, be very up front with this attitude so they can look elsewhere to retain a professional.

Re: Jury Duty

#226

Post by ketralnis »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #107
ketralnis wrote: post #101

I sat on a civil jury trial between a boilermaker in the Navy that had been exposed to asbestos and developed mesothelioma, and a company that made asbestos insulation. Neither side could actually put the man and the company or its insulation in the same room at any point in the past. Lots and lots of companies made this type of insulation. (In an "accidental" outbust from one of the attorneys that we were instructed…

I almost sat on a similar trial with a similar "accidental" outburst from the defendants lawyers. Did this trial happen to be in Los Angeles?

San Francisco

Re: Jury Duty

#227

Post by dnr »

ketralnis wrote: post #101

I sat on a civil jury trial between a boilermaker in the Navy that had been exposed to asbestos and developed mesothelioma, and a company that made asbestos insulation. Neither side could actually put the man and the company or its insulation in the same room at any point in the past. Lots and lots of companies made this type of insulation. (In an "accidental" outbust from one of the attorneys that we were instructed…

I was on a civil trial jury for a very similar situation. Construction worker 30 years ago, exposed to asbestos, lung cancer. Oh, and also a lifelong smoker. Originally sued ~30 companies, whittled down to 3 by the time the trial started, 1 by the time the trial ended, a company that mined asbestos.

The striking thing was the degree to which the other jurors seemed to be making decisions based almost completely on emotion and which side told a better and more sympathetic story, with little regard for facts or reason. One of the jurors at one point gave a blatantly incorrect explanation of a simple statement about probabilities, and got angry when I corrected her.

The jury ended up awarding a pretty significant amount of money, because the plaintiff was relatively poor and sympathetic, and because the company had acted somewhat shady with regard to knowledge about the dangers of asbestos and warning labels. That's despite the tenuous connection between the asbestos they mined and the asbestos that may have been in his lungs (there was no direct evidence of asbestos in his lungs), and the significant probability that the lung cancer was caused by his smoking and not asbestos at all.

The scary part is that I felt like most of the jury was at least trying to do the right thing, using the cognitive tools that they had available to them (mainly empathy and reasoning like "they acted shady so they deserve to be fined"). If people didn't even try, it could have been much worse. As it is, though, I pretty much lost my faith in the jury system.

Re: Jury Duty

#228

Post by pcvarmint »

geomark wrote: post #60
YorkianTones wrote: post #29

"Edith looks up from a game of solitaire and casually mentions that she actually thinks the murder was committed by the accomplice, who was never found and is not on trial. But since the defendant’s lawyer did such a poor job exonerating him, she concludes, she’s going to deliver a guilty verdict. My jaw drops. No one questions her obviously flawed reasoning, because she’s on their side." This, for me, was the most t…

Brings back memories. I served on the jury when Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedys was on trial for including a rude poster in one of their albums[1]. Jury deliberation was a circus. One woman hung the poster up (it was pretty rude [2]), looked at it for a while, and said "Kinda makes you horny". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Kennedys#Frankenchrist_an... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_Landscape

Former prosecutor recants: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/285/t...

Re: Jury Duty

#229

Post by Chris2048 »

pc86 wrote: post #209
rrego wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes that both lawyers were of equal competence. The authors does not think so (other members of the jury didn't think so). In the end, won't the jury have to interpret "case law"? How can you be presented something without interpreting it.

Yes you interpret it, as it is described and presented (in lay terms) by both the defense and prosecution, as filtered by an impartial judge. And incompetent representation is grounds for an appeal. I'm not sure what exactly that has to do with the fact that John Doe off the street is probably not equipped to read primary source material on legal precedent and interpret it correct on his own.

There is also the question - Where does he source his research. Do his stats come from random internet sources, publications, for example...
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