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Jury Duty

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21–30 of 229 posts

Re: Jury Duty

#21
post #15
post #11

This guy seems like a terrible, terrible juror. Bragging about violating the rules, annoyed because the judge is called "your honor", implying that a jury with 6/12 people white is somehow a sign of massive racial bias? What is supposed to be redeeming about this article? I'm not reading it all unless there's something somebody says is worth reading. EDIT: It gets more readable in the jury section, but I still don't…

No, this guy seems like a real human being. Jurors are supposed to be humans, first and foremost. That's why juries are made up of your peers and not a bunch of legal professionals. There's lots of "rules" in life, and our job as humans is figuring out which ones matter.

> Jurors are supposed to be humans, first and foremost. That's why juries are made up of your peers and not a bunch of legal professionals.

Juries do not exist to selectively exercise "humanity" by ignoring the rules. They exist because any more narrowly-drawn pool of decision-makers could more easily be accused of bias and partiality.

Re: Jury Duty

#22
post #15
post #11

This guy seems like a terrible, terrible juror. Bragging about violating the rules, annoyed because the judge is called "your honor", implying that a jury with 6/12 people white is somehow a sign of massive racial bias? What is supposed to be redeeming about this article? I'm not reading it all unless there's something somebody says is worth reading. EDIT: It gets more readable in the jury section, but I still don't…

No, this guy seems like a real human being. Jurors are supposed to be humans, first and foremost. That's why juries are made up of your peers and not a bunch of legal professionals. There's lots of "rules" in life, and our job as humans is figuring out which ones matter.

And a decent, rational, moral, courageous person whom realizes legality is rarely the same as justice.

Too many people find it expedient to just shirk their responsibilities and send innocent people to prison, to death because "it's too much work" or "don't want conflict."

Re: Jury Duty

#23
post #17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this guy seems like a real human being. Jurors are supposed to be humans, first and foremost. That's why juries are made up of your peers and not a bunch of legal professionals. There's lots of "rules" in life, and our job as humans is figuring out which ones matter.

I agree. A juror who believes in following the rules for the sake of following the rules is terrifying . The goal of our legal system is (or should be) justice rather than mere law enforcement, and it's never appropriate to ignore the fact that every component of the system is fallible.

Agreed^million. Terrifying in a Stanford Prison meets Milgram way. I think all jurors should be put through Milgram-like experiments as condition for service, to determine if they're cowed by authority or possess their own moral compasses.

Re: Jury Duty

#24
Not quite jury duty but this story did strike a chord.

I'm someone who strongly believes, in theory anyway, in the presumption of innocence and that everyone is entitled to a strong defense. A prosecutor should have to earn a conviction. However I also feel strongly that perpetrators of some crimes, upon conviction, should face harsh punishments.

Earlier this week, we got a message from a defense attorney inquiring about our services to assist with a criminal case. There were no other details left, so we googled the attorney and found that this attorney is involved in a very high-profile criminal case defending someone accused of an extremely heinous crime. It's a Law and Order-type crime, and it happens to be in one of the category crimes that I find to be particularly egregious.

I'm torn. The part of me that believes in the right to a strong defense wants to assist, not necessarily because I support the defendant, but because the prosecutor shouldn't be a rubber stamp. The other part is wondering what happens if I help defendant get off and he hurts someone else.

We left a message with the attorney asking for more detail and haven't heard back. It may be that the attorney found someone else, decided our field won't help, or maybe just can't afford us. But if we do hear back, if we are able to assist, and if the attorney does want to retain us, I don't know how we'll respond.

I hope I have the courage to say yes. But I don't know that I do.

(throwaway account to mask my normal HN identity).

Re: Jury Duty

#25

Not quite jury duty but this story did strike a chord. I'm someone who strongly believes, in theory anyway, in the presumption of innocence and that everyone is entitled to a strong defense. A prosecutor should have to earn a conviction. However I also feel strongly that perpetrators of some crimes, upon conviction, should face harsh punishments. Earlier this week, we got a message from a defense attorney inquiring a…

And what if you don't help, and the defendant is innocent but goes to jail for a heinous crime they did not commit? Does that possibility hold less weight with you?

---

> not necessarily because I support the defendant

Suppose the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. Now that they're innocent, would you like to support them?

Re: Jury Duty

#26
This article is an interesting narrative depicting the exact sort of nuance that the term "reasonable doubt" is intended to elicit once criminal prosecution reaches jury deliberation. As others have noted, this seems a somewhat comfortable result, albeit at a human cost. Justice delayed/served.

The author touches on it, but another interesting aspect of the criminal justice system is the funding, politics and police practices that motivate the prosecution of minor crimes that never see a court room. Many unnamed players in this story had vested financial and political interests in particular outcomes. In this case, the stakes were large enough that the jurors lost sleep and distressed over the details. One wonders if softening the charges to lesser charges would have weakened his resolve.

It's poetic that at trial, the defendant, the witnesses, the prosecutor, the defense attorney, the judge and the jury cannot lie. Police, however, are trained to do so during investigations as a best practice in pursuit of justice. That fact probably contributed to the author's initial distrust in the system, sewing the seeds of this mistrial.

Re: Jury Duty

#27

Not quite jury duty but this story did strike a chord. I'm someone who strongly believes, in theory anyway, in the presumption of innocence and that everyone is entitled to a strong defense. A prosecutor should have to earn a conviction. However I also feel strongly that perpetrators of some crimes, upon conviction, should face harsh punishments. Earlier this week, we got a message from a defense attorney inquiring a…

Why do you assume the defendant is guilty? What if he's innocent, but your refusal to help provide a strong defense causes him to be found guilty? Why do you presume to do the judge and jury's job for them, but with no access to the facts or judicial procedure?

If prosecutors can ensure that a strong defense is impossible simply by accusing someone of an appropriately heinous crime, then the criminal justice system has failed. Please don't be complicit in that.

Re: Jury Duty

#28

Not quite jury duty but this story did strike a chord. I'm someone who strongly believes, in theory anyway, in the presumption of innocence and that everyone is entitled to a strong defense. A prosecutor should have to earn a conviction. However I also feel strongly that perpetrators of some crimes, upon conviction, should face harsh punishments. Earlier this week, we got a message from a defense attorney inquiring a…

And what if you don't help, and the defendant is innocent but goes to jail for a heinous crime they did not commit? Does that possibility hold less weight with you? --- > not necessarily because I support the defendant Suppose the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. Now that they're innocent, would you like to support them?

We're so conditioned to be afraid of evil we can't recognize the true "evil".

Re: Jury Duty

#29
"Edith looks up from a game of solitaire and casually mentions that she actually thinks the murder was committed by the accomplice, who was never found and is not on trial. But since the defendant’s lawyer did such a poor job exonerating him, she concludes, she’s going to deliver a guilty verdict. My jaw drops. No one questions her obviously flawed reasoning, because she’s on their side."

This, for me, was the most terrifying bit in the article. To convict a man of murder, and to send him to life in prison or perhaps to his own death, when you think he's innocent? It shocks me what people are capable of sometimes. But this article doesn't shock me, because I know what people are capable of. Kudos to the author for sticking to his moral compass in the face of adversity.

Re: Jury Duty

#30

Not quite jury duty but this story did strike a chord. I'm someone who strongly believes, in theory anyway, in the presumption of innocence and that everyone is entitled to a strong defense. A prosecutor should have to earn a conviction. However I also feel strongly that perpetrators of some crimes, upon conviction, should face harsh punishments. Earlier this week, we got a message from a defense attorney inquiring a…

And what if you don't help, and the defendant is innocent but goes to jail for a heinous crime they did not commit? Does that possibility hold less weight with you? --- > not necessarily because I support the defendant Suppose the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. Now that they're innocent, would you like to support them?

Does that possibility hold less weight with you?

In general no, in this specific case, yes, because the evidence is so overwhelming. Think "twenty dead bodies found buried in defendant's basement next to bloody knives with defendant's fingerprints." I know this might be an unsatisfactory response, but I really can't be more specific without pointing to the actual case and I don't want to get into specifics in case I do decide to assist.

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