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Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

telecom.kz

131–140 of 378 posts

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're talking like Kazakhstan is a functional democracy. http://exiledonline.com/the-massacre-everyone-ignored-70-str...

Let's not forget when they bossed around some Italian secret services, police and administration underlings to arrest and deport the wife and child of a Kazakh dissident: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0d35c07c-e57f-11e2-ad1a-00144feabd...

Wow, didn't know about that. Thanks for the link.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#132
post #98
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, this is one of the reasons why I believe locally installed certificates overriding pinning has a quickly eroding shelf life... At some point, something bad will happen like this (or malware-based) and Chrome will raise their hand and say, "sorry enterprises, no more MITM at all, even for locally installed certificates." After that, IE and Firefox will follow and crypto will no longer be so trivially subv…

That's another arms race Chrome will lose, because the market for the kinds of enterprise configuration management and "host protection" tools that could override this policy exists and is very lucrative. Chrome would simply be begging enterprise security companies to release products to fuck up their browser. I disagree with you.

Chrome already has an "enterprise" version, moving a less braindead corporate monitoring system then MITM certs into it would probably be a good thing.

It would also be a good way for them to start pushing a "two party consent" model for private wiretapping -- It's illegal for my employer to record my office phone because it's a violation of the other party's rights. Facebook has as much a stake in not letting employers monitor employee's social media use as the employees do.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#133
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

easy to enforce inside the country. Just set it so that there's no https if you don't have the cert! It is becoming a legal requirement for all telcos in the country so even if you're roaming (with a data plan from a foreign provider, for example) - you're still using the local telcos. Only way to avoid is to use some kind of foreign satellite internet or maybe private / non government / non telco dark fibre.

I guess VPN is the only way to avoid it. Or sshuttle or something over port 80. But then again, how long will it take before they can detect that and then block it?! Or you can use non-standard ports, and change them continuously.

They can just block everything by default and only enable what they can decrypt. Maybe you could try tunelling encrypted data over HTTP, but heuristics could probably pick that up too.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#135
Why is Kazakhstan's cert any different than the hundreds of "trusted" root certificates that came preinstalled on my mac?

Looking at my mac's cert keychain, there are 185 trusted root certs. I don't know what any of them are or who has the private key to them.

My ISP could MITM my traffic whenever it wants to, if it has the private key of one of the hundreds of trusted root certs on my device.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#136
post #2

> The national security certificate will secure protection of Kazakhstan users when using coded access protocols to foreign Internet resources. How is this protecting users? They are outright lying here, if I understand correctly. Also why are they asking for my location? http://i.imgur.com/fYKHRK1.png

pretty much anything saying "for your protection", "for your safety" or "for your convenience" is a lie. it's a pretty common euphemism in the us too.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#137
post #89

This is what HTTP Public Key Pinning (HPKP) protects against. It allows a server to specify the only set of certificates that a browser should accept. Meaning that MITM'ing is impossible, without a valid cert in the chain of one of the advertised trusted certificates from the server. Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Chrome for Android, and the Android stock browser all support it. I'm not sure how they intend to circumvent th…

No, it isn't. Locally installed certificates override pins; if they didn't, HPKP browsers wouldn't be deployable inside large companies that have regulatory requirements to monitor traffic from their own desktops, and there would be no benefit, because an adversary who can install software or reconfigure your machine can defeat pins in a variety of other less transparent ways. HPKP is great, but it doesn't address th…

I've posted this idea elsewhere, but it seems relevant again. What about, as a compromise, adding a new ExtendedKeyUsage bit for "TrafficInterception" that must be set on the CA (probably would need to be on the root and all intermediates) in order for HPKP to be ignored by the browser?

At the very least, this clarifies intentions and helps somewhat with situations like the Dell certificate where it's not intended for MitM.

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#138

Why is Kazakhstan's cert any different than the hundreds of "trusted" root certificates that came preinstalled on my mac? Looking at my mac's cert keychain, there are 185 trusted root certs. I don't know what any of them are or who has the private key to them. My ISP could MITM my traffic whenever it wants to, if it has the private key of one of the hundreds of trusted root certs on my device.

Those hundreds of trusted root certificates are, at least to some extent, held to operational and security standards. If your ISP used one of those certificates to MitM your traffic, there is a very real possibility of that certificate being blacklisted by browsers.

Further, unlike the Kazakhstan certificate, those root certificates cannot bypass HTTPS public key pinning (HPKP).

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#139

Why is Kazakhstan's cert any different than the hundreds of "trusted" root certificates that came preinstalled on my mac? Looking at my mac's cert keychain, there are 185 trusted root certs. I don't know what any of them are or who has the private key to them. My ISP could MITM my traffic whenever it wants to, if it has the private key of one of the hundreds of trusted root certs on my device.

These CAs have to follow specific rules and have external audit. MITM is prohibited by these rules: certificate authorities that participate or enable MITM are removed from root stores (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DigiNotar).

Re: Kazakhstan to MitM all HTTPS traffic starting Jan 1

#140
post #63

Slightly OT - if the bad guy can't fiddle with the trust store of your computer, whats his another methods of analysing a users traffic? Is https breakable by other means?

You can inject hooks into the certificate validation routines to make your certificates accepted, hook the actual encrypt/decrypt functions, or make the session establishment routines leak the master secret.
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