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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#661

Post by crusso »

licoricetic wrote: post #647
crusso wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I see what you're trying to do - and I'm not a Christian; but the Christ depicted in the New Testament wasn't shy about calling out inappropriate behavior. He didn't politely ask the money changers to leave the temple, he flipped their tables over.

He fought the sin by removing them from the temple whemnthey were committing bad acts, he didn't flip when they were expressing their feelings.

I question your premise that the author of the article flipped. By your same logic, the pastor was simply expressing his feelings and is thus beyond reproach.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#662

Post by wpietri »

philh wrote: post #622
wpietri wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not in fact saying that particular incident is or is not ok. (I also don't think his tweets are fairly characterized by your summation.) As I mentioned, I am addressing the line of argument, not the case. What I amsaying is that when the "freedom of speech" flag only gets hauled out for pro-bigotry straight white guys, I think it's not really about freedom of speech but instead defense of privilege. If defenders…

You're addressing a line of argument about which I said "that's not what I want to get at". And you're ignoring the actual thing that I've been talking about. The thing about which I said "it makes me pretty uncomfortable when..." and "I don't have a polite term for this". I disagree with some of what you're saying, and I agree with other bits of it. But I strongly disagree with the thing that you're doing and not ev…

Just so we're clear, your complaint is that I'm talking about the thing I want to talk about, rather than me talking about the thing you want me to talk about? I'm not immediately seeing my obligation here.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#663

Post by iokevins »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #31
iokevins wrote: post #4

Per Wikipedia, Oklahoma Wesleyan University serves about 900 students and is an evangelical Christian university of the Wesleyan Church located in Bartlesville, in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. Their motto is "A university where Jesus is Lord." In this article, conservative OKWU president Dr. Everett Piper seems to dismiss the concerns of one student, calling for more sermons full of guilt and shame, as a tool to get c…

That says a lot about the US zeitgeist. The only one brave enough to call a spade a spade is an untouchable evangelical president from a tiny university. You live in fear, and some of you think that fear is good, as long as it protects those that don't want to grow up. I hope this convinces more valuable students to come study in Europe. It's about time for the brain drain to reverse its course.

Separation of church and state does have its moments.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#664

Post by Tycho »

dang wrote: post #659
Tycho wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I find it highly entertaining (and interesting).

Many entertaining and interesting experiments could be run on HN if one didn't care about damaging it.

Damage, or balance? Yummyfajitas style of replies are IMO prefeble to letting the 'mood affiliations' go unchecked and to chucking walls of text back at them.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#665

Post by javajosh »

zaroth wrote: post #524
javajosh wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's something to the idea of "consensual communication". It's odd that we don't allow people to shove food into your mouth without asking but we surely allow people to shovel words into your brain without asking. "Safe spacers" just want a generalization of an ad blocker, and I for one support their right to it (even the ones that go way too far, because determining that is not up to me.)

What's wrong with this line of thinking is shoveling food in someone's mouth without permission is physical assault and voicing an opinion in a public space is not even close. You do not have a right not to hear ideas you don't agree with, because if such a right existed in a world with such diverse opinions, no one could ever open their mouth. Censorship of opposing ideas carries a very real and very significant cos…

>You do not have a right not to hear ideas you don't agree with.

There's a lot to unpack in your comment, but I want to focus on the above. I believe you do have a right to filter your input, and indeed, we can do and MUST filter it because there is so much of it. Certainly my right to speak should not trump your right to not have to be listen.

I think that the galling part about the safe space thing is that people are going to places which are designed to be not safe (in that sense) and then demanding everyone stop doing what they came there to do. It's like walking into a bar and proclaiming "I'm an alcoholic and you're all harming me by drinking in front of me!" That's stupid. But I, for one, don't want the stupidity of a few to somehow lead to a world where I'm forced to listen when I don't want to.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#666

Post by JungleGymSam »

warfangle wrote: post #552
mkrfox wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's so annoying. Everyone's having this big screaming conversation about something and using the words for something else, like they're working with some kind of bilingual dictionary. The entries for "safe space" and "trigger warning" got mixed up with a Sudoku puzzle, and everyone's pretending it makes perfect sense instead of looking for a better dictionary.

Trigger warnings are important, in the context of a safe place. I'm coming from the direction of a) being genderqueer and b) having survived sexual assault. Safe places have been remarkable in giving me a place to discuss my feelings about gender without ridicule or hate. Trigger warnings have been pivotal in me recovering from being molested as a pre-teen. I'm actively scared of coming out in the developer community…

> (edit: I love that I just got down-voted for coming out to the community as both queer and victim of sexual assault! Thanks for proving me right, HN.)

Stop seeing the world through your victim-goggles. Just stop.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#667

Post by JungleGymSam »

ikeboy wrote: post #656
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The response explicitly acknowledges that they're trying to make people feel bad. Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy , not to make you happy . When you teach something like I Corinthians 13, if it's going to help anyone's life instead of being merely an academic exercise, you wind up saying "Yes, you really are supposed to love like this. Do you?" If that makes someone feel bad, well, t…

Saying something is Christian does not imply it is fine. The proper response to "I'm a jerk because I'm Christian" is "fine, be Christian, but you'll face the consequences of being a jerk, one of which is public shaming for being a jerk". There was a valid point made that the student chose to go to a Christian college. But note that the logic that that implies is precisely the logic behind trigger warnings: that peop…

> Deliberately not having trigger warnings is deliberately deceptive.

facepalm

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#668

Post by JungleGymSam »

coldpie wrote: post #222
Tenhundfeld wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 Along with some NYT coverage on this general topic: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-gener... This issue of students complaining about trigger warnings and the need for safe spaces certainly seems to be increasingly prevalent, but that could just be due to the media giving it more attention.

Interesting that according to that NYTimes link, offensive speech is considered protected "free speech," while people objecting to offensive speech does not qualify. I have just as much a right to tell you you're an asshole and not welcome near me as you do to say offensive things to me.

> and not welcome near me

Are you saying you believe that another person can only be near you because you give them implicit permission to? And that at any time, and for any reason, you could remove that permission?

Where did you get that idea?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#669

Post by aws_ls »

warfangle wrote: post #633
aggieben wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The professor is the one who brought up the safe place terminology in this instance. Not the student. I guess "safe space" (quoted as a term under discussion) isn't really the right term here - but the student is the one who raised the issue of "victimization", which to my mind is really more what we're talking about than actual safe spaces as you defined them. So on this point, that might actually be good feedback t…

If he did feel victimized, how christian of the professor it was to just shut him down instead of trying to understand with compassion why he felt victimized...! :) One wonders if it was all in the professor's head? Or if it even happened? Where's the proof! Flip the conversation, just because the professor is claiming to be accused of saying something that made the student feel victimized doesn't mean it happened!

And if the incident happened as described, then imagine the position of the student now. Perhaps s/he is thinking: 'Bugger broke my trust, by blogging publicly on what was an honest feedback. Never again I am giving any feedback to authority. Anonymous blogging is better'

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#670

Post by dang »

darkr wrote: post #389
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

> It's honestly baffling because I am sure there are hundreds of very smart people there who must realize this, including the professors and administration. Well, they can't be that smart, given they haven't yet figured out that there is no supernatural dude who lives in the sky who communicates with them telepathically, and there is no such thing as ghosts (holy or otherwise).

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