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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#641

Post by dragonwriter »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #638
ikeboy wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the response is going to be "Yes you are", and we descend into a shouting match. I don't mean literally, the words you say must be "I'm not a jerk." I mean the defense must consist of a denial that the behavior was jerkish. If that's achieved by laying out standards for jerkishness, that's fine. The OP read to me as not even achieving that. It wasn't "we aren't jerks, because what we did wasn't jerky", it…

> The response explicitly acknowledges that they're trying to make people feel bad. Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy , not to make you happy . When you teach something like I Corinthians 13, if it's going to help anyone's life instead of being merely an academic exercise, you wind up saying "Yes, you really are supposed to love like this. Do you?" If that makes someone feel bad, well, t…

> Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy, not to make you happy.

Plenty of Christians would disagree with this (most, I suspect, would agree with the first part, but many of those would disagree with the second part, and perhaps more specifically with the idea that the ultimate achievement of true holiness and that of true happiness are separable.) See, inter alia, 1 Pt 1:8-9, Jn 16:22, Rom 14:17, Rom 15:13, Heb 12:2.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#642

Post by DanBC »

bobthechef wrote: post #640

The old word for "safe-space" used to be "mental hospital". Seriously, if you think you can hold the world hostage to your issues, you are sadly deluded, sadly arrogant, and sadly self-centered. It's worse than childish. It's crazy. And no amount of Oprah-style false compassion can conceal that. As for the horrifying collectivism and grandiose, mobbish character of the comments, direct the dagger inward at your own p…

> The old word for "safe-space" used to be "mental hospital".

No it didn't.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#643

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dragonwriter wrote: post #641
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The response explicitly acknowledges that they're trying to make people feel bad. Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy , not to make you happy . When you teach something like I Corinthians 13, if it's going to help anyone's life instead of being merely an academic exercise, you wind up saying "Yes, you really are supposed to love like this. Do you?" If that makes someone feel bad, well, t…

> Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy, not to make you happy. Plenty of Christians would disagree with this (most, I suspect, would agree with the first part, but many of those would disagree with the second part, and perhaps more specifically with the idea that the ultimate achievement of true holiness and that of true happiness are separable.) See, inter alia , 1 Pt 1:8-9, Jn 16:22, Rom…

No, I agree that they are not separable. But the Christian position is that, if you chase happiness, you won't get it, but if you chase holiness (the right way, through God in Christ), you'll get happiness as well.

That is, if you want happiness more than God, you won't find true happiness. This applies directly to the university president's statement.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#644

Post by licoricetic »

Retra wrote: post #599
licoricetic wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying "War on Christmas is alive and well in Christianity" is like saying "Daesh is alive and well in Islam". It is smearing a much larger group for the misbehavior of a small segment of demagogue extremists.

"Small Segment" indeed: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/august-2015-ratings-fox-news-1-in...

Watching FoxNews is not the same as espousing all its broadcasted opinions.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#645

Post by ender89 »

warfangle wrote: post #498
aggieben wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a stark difference between a free and voluntary association of like-minded people and a so-called "safe space", which uses a pretext of "victimization" to capriciously thought control others who simply committed the offense of disagreeing or criticizing. If you hate Christianity, why would you go to this school? If you aren't willing to follow behavioral rules, why would you go to this school? If you think ph…

There's a stark difference between what people who dislike the concept of "safe space" think a "safe space" is and what a "safe space" actually is. A "safe space" is a place where you know you aren't going to be singled out and harmed (verbally or physically) by someone telling you that you're a queer faggot and deserve to die. A "safe space" is a place where people can discuss the actual issues of hatred, bigotry an…

Hey, this is a safe space for anti-safe-spacers and you're making us feel distinctly unsafe by being purposefully hurtful; stating that all anti-safe-spacers are hateful sexist racists who don't notice when someone leaves a comparison dangling (There's a stark difference between "this isn't a place for hurtful things" and what?). You should know that anti-safe-spacers are a diverse group of individuals from all walks of life, genders, races, and wolf/human hybrids. We're only intolerant of people who are intolerant of other people's cultures. And the Dutch.

Also, I hope you realize how silly you sound. "Safe Spaces" are supposed to be free from antagonizing rhetoric, violence, and judgement. Its not supposed to be safe from the emotional pain you feel when someone tells you that you might be wrong for the first time in your life, or that a college sorority girl dressing up as Mulan isn't culturally insensitive (especially in today's world where the lines that traditionally divide us are being constantly eroded by near instant communication and a sub 24 hour flight to anywhere on the globe), or that god forbid that racism is not exclusive to white people of Anglo-Saxon decent. College specifically is about challenging world views and teaching students first and fore most how to become citizens of the world. Its not for "safe spaces" where students are tucked into comfortable rooms with rounded corners and foam flooring to make sure they never hurt themselves.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#646

Post by licoricetic »

Domenic_S wrote: post #540
licoricetic wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing in Christian Evangelism that inherently implies that University teachers are right about everything and have no need to engage with students' understanding of Christianity.

If you take the article's anecdote at face values, the student wasn't discussing Christian theology; he was scolding the speaker for making him feel bad. The passage in question (1 Cor. 13) is one of the most inoffensive passages in the bible, widely recited at even secular weddings for example. Distilled down, the school is saying that if a lesson on how we should selflessly love others makes you feel bad about your…

Was the OP article written in a tone of "selfless love"?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#647

Post by licoricetic »

crusso wrote: post #542
licoricetic wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being an asshole to students, or even sinners, is not Christian as in Christ. The university is operating under false pretenses.

I guess I see what you're trying to do - and I'm not a Christian; but the Christ depicted in the New Testament wasn't shy about calling out inappropriate behavior. He didn't politely ask the money changers to leave the temple, he flipped their tables over.

He fought the sin by removing them from the temple whemnthey were committing bad acts, he didn't flip when they were expressing their feelings.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#648

Post by dragonwriter »

warfangle wrote: post #552
mkrfox wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what's so annoying. Everyone's having this big screaming conversation about something and using the words for something else, like they're working with some kind of bilingual dictionary. The entries for "safe space" and "trigger warning" got mixed up with a Sudoku puzzle, and everyone's pretending it makes perfect sense instead of looking for a better dictionary.

Trigger warnings are important, in the context of a safe place. I'm coming from the direction of a) being genderqueer and b) having survived sexual assault. Safe places have been remarkable in giving me a place to discuss my feelings about gender without ridicule or hate. Trigger warnings have been pivotal in me recovering from being molested as a pre-teen. I'm actively scared of coming out in the developer community…

> Trigger warnings are important, in the context of a safe place.

I can see that, in the context in a "safe space" with a fairly specific purpose as to who (either by specific individuals are shared identity around common potential trauma source) it is safe for.

The reality of trauma and triggering is that there are a wide variety of sources of trauma, and that each is associated with a wide variety of both obviously related potential triggers and less obviously related ones, so I think a problem comes about when either safe spaces or trigger warnings become overly generic -- and, particularly, when contexts that are not specifically-sheltered "safe spaces" become the focus of efforts for demands for trigger warnings around any possible source of trauma (or, in a different way, when they became the focus of efforts to demand "trigger warnings" favoring particular sources of trauma, without any particularly strong reason that source of trauma is relevant and needing to be favored in the particular space.)

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#649

Post by licoricetic »

ams6110 wrote: post #368
lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians Well it's an evangelical college. It is what it says on the tin. They disapprove of certain behaviors they consider immoral, but if you don't know that going in, you didn't do your research.

"Evangelical" means spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, which says that Jesus died to win forgiveness for your sins. Disapproving certain behaviors isn't really on the tin.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#650

Post by dragonwriter »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #643
dragonwriter wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy, not to make you happy. Plenty of Christians would disagree with this (most, I suspect, would agree with the first part, but many of those would disagree with the second part, and perhaps more specifically with the idea that the ultimate achievement of true holiness and that of true happiness are separable.) See, inter alia , 1 Pt 1:8-9, Jn 16:22, Rom…

No, I agree that they are not separable. But the Christian position is that, if you chase happiness, you won't get it, but if you chase holiness (the right way, through God in Christ), you'll get happiness as well. That is, if you want happiness more than God, you won't find true happiness. This applies directly to the university president's statement.

> But the Christian position is that, if you chase happiness, you won't get it, but if you chase holiness (the right way, through God in Christ), you'll get happiness as well.

I think a good case can be made that it is a validly Christian position pursuing holiness without an awareness of happiness (both one's own and that of others) is the root of blind ritualism like that Christ repeatedly condemns, and pursuing happiness without an awareness of holiness is hedonism (with Christ, also, repeatedly condemns), and that the Christian route rejects the separation entirely -- you can't pursue any of those (holiness, happiness for oneself, or happiness for others) properly while seeing them as separate things.

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