This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University • Hacker News Board

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#651

Post by AnimalMuppet » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 11:50 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #650

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I agree that they are not separable. But the Christian position is that, if you chase happiness, you won't get it, but if you chase holiness (the right way, through God in Christ), you'll get happiness as well. That is, if you want happiness more than God, you won't find true happiness. This applies directly to the university president's statement.

> But the Christian position is that, if you chase happiness, you won't get it, but if you chase holiness (the right way, through God in Christ), you'll get happiness as well. I think a good case can be made that it is a validly Christian position pursuing holiness without an awareness of happiness (both one's own and that of others) is the root of blind ritualism like that Christ repeatedly condemns, and pursuing ha…

I agree with you that that is a valid position. I even can agree with it myself, depending on exactly what you mean by "pursuing holiness without an awareness of happiness".

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#652

Post by AnimalMuppet » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 12:21 AM UTC

licoricetic wrote: post #649

ams6110 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians Well it's an evangelical college. It is what it says on the tin. They disapprove of certain behaviors they consider immoral, but if you don't know that going in, you didn't do your research.

"Evangelical" means spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, which says that Jesus died to win forgiveness for your sins. Disapproving certain behaviors isn't really on the tin.

"Sins" kind of implies that they're disapproved. The gospel of Jesus Christ is in fact that Jesus died to win forgiveness of your sins, but immediately after saying "I do not condemn you", he said "go and sin no more."

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#653

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 1:24 AM UTC

vdaniuk wrote: post #138

Juliate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

>University is for adults, not toddlers. Oh really, so university students are able to consume alcohol, right? edit: noun: adult; - a person who is fully grown or developed. - a person who has reached the age of majority. edit 2: "Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of j…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#654

Post by bobthechef » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 1:42 AM UTC

Part of being an adult is realizing that you are powerless. It's a break from self-centered megalomania and "show" mentality. Part of being an adult is embracing suffering and pain. They are instructive. They are gifts. They teach us about ourselves and others and the world. Embrace them. Be grateful. Accept them humbly. Be humble. Only pride refuses pain and becomes indignant, says it is "too good" for it. Only pride boasts or complains about pain. Only pride conceals and deceives--itself!--at the altar of self. Only pride turns pain into some grandiose undertaking. Only pride wallows in self-pity. Only pride assaults others in self-righteousness and entitlement.

Life is the crucible in which pain and suffering are just another way you are made better...if you accept them and kill, and resolve to kill, your pride.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#655

Post by zaroth » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 2:38 AM UTC

warfangle wrote: post #632

zaroth wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but accusing the entire community of deep rooted misogyny might have something to do with it?

Are you denying that there is deep rooted (if surface-subtle) misogyny obvious in the comment thread on just about every post about women in tech / safe places / gamergate / just about anything that challenges the authority of cis-gendered white men?

I am not commenting on it either way. You seemed to be asking about why you were down-voted, I was merely proposing what I thought to be the most likely reason. I hope you can see how it doesn't imply anything about my own personal belief?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#656

Post by ikeboy » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 2:45 AM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #638

ikeboy wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the response is going to be "Yes you are", and we descend into a shouting match. I don't mean literally, the words you say must be "I'm not a jerk." I mean the defense must consist of a denial that the behavior was jerkish. If that's achieved by laying out standards for jerkishness, that's fine. The OP read to me as not even achieving that. It wasn't "we aren't jerks, because what we did wasn't jerky", it…

> The response explicitly acknowledges that they're trying to make people feel bad. Let's start here: The point of Christianity is to make you holy , not to make you happy . When you teach something like I Corinthians 13, if it's going to help anyone's life instead of being merely an academic exercise, you wind up saying "Yes, you really are supposed to love like this. Do you?" If that makes someone feel bad, well, t…

Saying something is Christian does not imply it is fine. The proper response to "I'm a jerk because I'm Christian" is "fine, be Christian, but you'll face the consequences of being a jerk, one of which is public shaming for being a jerk".

There was a valid point made that the student chose to go to a Christian college. But note that the logic that that implies is precisely the logic behind trigger warnings: that people can choose what to associate with. Clearly, the student did not anticipate the content of the sermon, despite knowing it was a Christian university. So in that case, a warning for that lecture would have let the student know whether to go, and, depending on how important it was to them, possibly drop out.

Deliberately not having trigger warnings is deliberately deceptive.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#657

Post by zaroth » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 2:45 AM UTC

warfangle wrote: post #635

zaroth wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand what you're saying in the first two paragraphs. What's interesting is I don't think the goal of these "safe spaces" is at all to foster "free discussion" or "open development of ideas". What you see people rallying against is that the SJWs are shutting down any free discussion through these tactics. For example, these "safe spaces" apparently are to protect against "micro-aggressions" (a ter…

You've never been to a safe place have you? :)

My only personal experience with "safe places" is in "safe place imagery" which is a very cool visualization technique used for relaxation, meditation, and even in therapy along with amazing tricks like EMDR for helping to manage or eliminate triggers and "zero out" extremely stressful memories.

Quite as it should be, the best "safe place" is the one we create for ourselves in our mind. I never imagined students would demand a real-world physical equivalent that somehow everyone else in the room is supposed to comply with.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#658

Post by Tycho » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 3:56 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #634

yummyfajitas wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I misunderstood your post - I thought you were disagreeing and attempting to contribute to the conversation. Perhaps you were just randomly sharing your feelings for no reason?

Not cool. That crosses the line into incivility. I know you like to stay as close to the line as you can get without crossing it—which is far better than crossing it—but I wish you wouldn't. Your posts would be much better if you would show readers the respect of simply taking that edge out. They're literally edgy, and this acts as a low-grade provocation even when you're not technically saying anything abusive. This…

To be honest I find it highly entertaining (and interesting).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#659

Post by dang » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 3:58 AM UTC

Tycho wrote: post #658

dang wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not cool. That crosses the line into incivility. I know you like to stay as close to the line as you can get without crossing it—which is far better than crossing it—but I wish you wouldn't. Your posts would be much better if you would show readers the respect of simply taking that edge out. They're literally edgy, and this acts as a low-grade provocation even when you're not technically saying anything abusive. This…

To be honest I find it highly entertaining (and interesting).

Many entertaining and interesting experiments could be run on HN if one didn't care about damaging it.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#660

Post by iokevins » Wed, Dec 02, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

flatline wrote: post #16

iokevins wrote: post #4

Per Wikipedia, Oklahoma Wesleyan University serves about 900 students and is an evangelical Christian university of the Wesleyan Church located in Bartlesville, in the U.S. state of Oklahoma. Their motto is "A university where Jesus is Lord." In this article, conservative OKWU president Dr. Everett Piper seems to dismiss the concerns of one student, calling for more sermons full of guilt and shame, as a tool to get c…

I honestly don't think he was being dismissive. I think he was acknowledging that the student's uncomfortable feelings were legitimate, even deliberately provoked, and offered a prescription for how to best handle them. This is (one) Christian message, and presumably one that the students at that school knowingly signed up for (well, their parents did, at any rate). I'm not a huge fan of self-blaming guilt, it tends…

Thanks for taking the time to share these thoughts; I appreciate it. His comments resonate with a non-trivial number of people. Since they discuss human values we all share, that makes sense, to me. With respect to feelings of guilt and shame, I'm completely in agreement that they can represent a wake-up call to further self growth--but only insofar as we can link them to the human needs they are telling us to pay attention to. That's where the self growth occurs. I'm not in agreement with using guilt and shame, as tools to get people to obey or submit, because doing so focuses our attention on what we want people to do, not why we want them to do it. They're both important; without the latter, it's just obedience training. I think we're pretty close in our assessment, so I'll leave it, at that. Thanks again.