Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 157 posts

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#141

Post by tptacek »

jacquesm wrote: post #139
plorg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...unless they were very obviously made up and the person making them of little public importance, in which case it would probably be more damaging to even acknowledge them as being worth discussion.

That was testimony under oath. If it was false testimony the penalties would be grave which somewhat reduces the chances of it being 'obviously made up'.

The penalties for lying under oath are usually anything but grave. Moreover: to punish her, the state has to prove that she knowingly lied. But I believe she believes what she's saying. That doesn't mean she's right.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#142

Post by Lawtonfogle »

jamoes wrote: post #25
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

Even if they don't, they can make it. They can bust any politician for career ruining material quite easily. If the FBI says you have CSA images on someone's machine, how many are going to doubt the FBI?

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#143

Post by Lawtonfogle »

peteretep wrote: post #79
tracker1 wrote: post #52

This is part of why the ACLU, EFF and NRA are the institutions I'm most in favor of donating to. The encroachment of civil liberties, increasingly intrusive actions from our own government and the like are getting pretty rediculous.

> ACLU, EFF and NRA I consider my neighbour being able to own an assault rifle as an encroachment of my civil liberties.

I consider my neighbor being able to utter blasphemy as an encroachment of my civil liberties.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#144

Post by dmix »

tptacek wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brad-friedman/formerly-gagged-... Some smoke, but no fire. "President Obama’s recently convened executive review of the NSA admitted: “In light of the lessons of our own history… at some point in the future, high-level government officials will decide that this massive database of extraordinarily sensitive private information is there for the plucking.”" From: http://www.whitehouse.gov/s…

Sibel Edmonds alleges that the FBI collected information about the lesbian affair of a Democratic Congresswoman. That is a bombshell accusation, one I'd hazard would be more newsworthy to most people in the US than the Snowden disclosures. Why can I only find references to that allegation on sites like LewRockwell.com, and not on WaPo or the NYT?

Very good question... Daniel Ellsberg wrote about a related story that was front page "London's Sunday Times" [1] and various foreign press. But searching Google for 2008-2010 there is zero mainstream American news coverage of that story or the 2009 deposition. Yet they covered her earlier whistleblowing heavily between 2002-2004.

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-ellsberg/covering-up-th...

Edit: upon further reading it appears to not be an allegation against the FBI but rather Turkish agents which makes this much less news-worthy:

> Turkish agents started gathering information on her, and they found out that she was bisexual. So a Turkish agent struck up a relationship with her. [ ... ] I don’t know if Congresswoman Schakowsky ever was actually blackmailed or did anything for the Turkish woman. http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7429

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#145

Post by dmix »

jacquesm wrote: post #139
plorg wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...unless they were very obviously made up and the person making them of little public importance, in which case it would probably be more damaging to even acknowledge them as being worth discussion.

That was testimony under oath. If it was false testimony the penalties would be grave which somewhat reduces the chances of it being 'obviously made up'.

Of note, her allegation regarding blackmailing a congresswoman was against Turkish agents whom the FBI was wiretapping, not the FBI themselves. In her deposition she specifically says

> [...] information was being collected for blackmail purposes, and her lesbian relationship, and they, the Turkish entities, wanted both congressional related favoritism from her, but also her husband was in a high position in the area in the state she was elected from, and these Turkish entities ran certain illegal operations, and they wanted her husband's help. But I don't know if she provided them with those. I left. I was terminated.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#146

Post by tptacek »

jacquesm wrote: post #140
tptacek wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold on, don't move the goalposts. Levison did not design Lavabit under pressure from the DOJ. He had years to work on the design, the precedent of Hushmail to work from, and, let's be clear: until the DOJ requested documents that violated his own political leanings, he was compliant with other DOJ requests.

> until the DOJ requested documents that violated his own political leanings, he was compliant with other DOJ requests. And that's his mistake. He should not have cared at all about which users the DOJ wanted info about, he should have realized that if he was capable of complying with their demands at all that his system should be fixed rather than kept that way. I can see how this happens though. Imagine your averag…

We disagree, for whatever it's worth. To me, his mistake was in attempting to provide government-proof email without taking the time to build the expertise required to do so.

The Internet is littered with broken attempts at providing government-resistant messaging systems. They're a plague. There experts trying to deliver the same systems, but securely; they get drowned out because their UX isn't as smooth as that of Lavabit's --- which took full advantage of the UX benefits of total insecurity to get more users.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#147

Post by tracker1 »

peteretep wrote: post #99
ItsDeathball wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that even process? Sure, if your neighbor is firing off rounds in the street, that's an encroachment, but your neighbor simply owning a thing you morally disagree with in no way affects you. If your neighbor keeps an AR-15 in a locked cabinet and takes it down to the range for weekend target shooting, how would you even know? Edit: I really should have taken note of your spelling of "neighbour". This post wa…

I disagree with my neighbour being able to keep anthrax-infected sheep on her property too, no matter that she tells me she's got a super safe pen for them, and really prefers the taste. Although admittedly I wouldn't know until she gets raided by the CDC or accidentally the whole nearby biosphere.

Firearms don't walk out of a gun safe under their own power.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#148

Post by tracker1 »

giardini wrote: post #121
peteretep wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ACLU, EFF and NRA I consider my neighbour being able to own an assault rifle as an encroachment of my civil liberties.

Please explain. Do you feel the same way when they buy a new car? Is this "keeping up with the Joneses"? Perhaps you should buy an assault rifle for yourself (and another for the wee wifie)!

Your average hunting rifle is far more powerful than your typical assault rifle... tbh, it's all kind of silly wrt small caliber weapons in general.

I don't, personally own a firearm. I have gone hunting, and done target shooting with friends, and feel the right to own as such is an essential right. I don't feel that the ACLU defends this right, which is why I put the NRA.. if the ACLU or another org was less obtuse in terms of defending gun rights, I'd probably prefer them.

I'm not a nut.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#149

Post by tracker1 »

peteretep wrote: post #126
arca_vorago wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's a good thing we beat you brits in the war and have a superior constitution that protects our rights to bear arms. Speaking of the original subject, wasn't it some despotic king of yours that formed the star court in the first place? Am I going crazy or is LaRouche seeming a bit less crazy these days?

> have a superior constitution that protects our rights Mmm, you guys have certainly managed some impressive innovations in habeas corpus[0][1], property rights[2], and free speech[3][4] O_o [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_St... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargaining_in_the_United_... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United... [3] https://en.wikipedia.…

In the end, after all other options... the right to bear arms is key to even being able to rebel. From a philosophical pov, not advocating armed rebellion. That said, I feel that firearms ownership is an essential right, and that efforts to ban them outright do not serve the public interest.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#150

Post by tracker1 »

ionised wrote: post #135
arca_vorago wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's a good thing we beat you brits in the war and have a superior constitution that protects our rights to bear arms. Speaking of the original subject, wasn't it some despotic king of yours that formed the star court in the first place? Am I going crazy or is LaRouche seeming a bit less crazy these days?

The French beat the British for the US actually, because it was in their interests to have Britain lose their hold on the North American colonies. Without French support the American colonists would not have been able to maintain a prolonged resistance against Britain. At the same time, Britain's main forces were across the other side of the world, fighting battles that were more important to them at the time. They w…

In the end, it's extremely difficult to fight against guerilla warfar against an enemy in their own territory. Generally 12-15% of the population is needed for an armed rebellion to be successful. It'd be hard for most countries to buy off enough soldiers to fight against that, in most areas.

Just looking at Iraq and Afghanistan it's rough. The rifts in that entire region are problematic. Even with superior technology and training, there's no clear victory... the same could be said of domestic rebellion if it ever came to that in the U.S.A.

Post reply on HN