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A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

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Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#21

Post by tptacek »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the point of his "holding action"? DOJ not only got what it wanted, but, as a result of Levison's hapless attempt to wriggle out of their request, they got Lavabit's TLS keys as well! Had Levison simply complied up front, he'd have held on to the keys, and been able to fold the site up gracefully, losing only the specific account DOJ targeted.

Panic. When cornered people make strange moves. It's easy enough to look at this rationally after the fact but I'm trying to imagine being in the focal point of such a powerplay and I'm not sure I'd make every move by the book.

Ok. You see, though, how his holding action probably harmed his users, right?

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#22

Post by jacquesm »

tptacek wrote: post #21
jacquesm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panic. When cornered people make strange moves. It's easy enough to look at this rationally after the fact but I'm trying to imagine being in the focal point of such a powerplay and I'm not sure I'd make every move by the book.

Ok. You see, though, how his holding action probably harmed his users, right?

Yes, absolutely. In the end everybody lost.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#23

Post by raquo »

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power.

I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn't tolerate shit like this.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#24

Post by cowardlydragon »

raquo wrote: post #23
jimrandomh wrote: post #8

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

We are Aldous Huxley's version of totalitarianism, where we are drugged and entertained into submission.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#25

Post by jamoes »

raquo wrote: post #23
jimrandomh wrote: post #8

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail?

My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#26

Post by raquo »

cowardlydragon wrote: post #24
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

We are Aldous Huxley's version of totalitarianism, where we are drugged and entertained into submission.

Yeah, but I'm wondering more about the inaction of other federal powers. Congress, President, I don't really know whose job it is, but someone in this country should have the power to deal with rogue government agencies? They don't appoint themselves.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#27

Post by raquo »

jamoes wrote: post #25
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That would also explain why corruption is allowed to happen, kinda. Is there a realistic exit from that situation?

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#28

Post by poof131 »

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

While I agree with the sentiment that agencies are going rogue, I think the power play rests with the executive branch. NSA, FBI, Justice Department, etc. all report to one individual, the President.

All agencies in government focus on increasing their own power, just like businesses focus on making money. The ‘War on Terror’ allowed the executive branch and national security related agencies to take on too much power. We the people, congress, and the courts need to curtail this power. Making permanent gag orders illegal would be a small start.

And if agents were using their powers to investigate critics, heads should roll with jail time for all involved. We don’t need a rehash of Hoover’s FBI and the crimes it committed.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#29

Post by tptacek »

jamoes wrote: post #25
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening.

A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#30

Post by [deleted] »

jamoes wrote: post #25
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

[deleted]
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