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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And honestly, I'm fine with that. Universities are for learning, and real learning comes from doing. The questions the students were grappling with are real ones. I expect they misapplied them here, as the yoga traditions I'm familiar with are mostly conscious Indian exports, their effort to share something with the world. But students should frequently get things wrong, because that's how real learning happens.

Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong. Aside from being ridiculed by people they disagree with and thus don't care about being ridiculed by, they have faced no consequences.

Ridicule is a consequence, bring back the stocks I say! (only half joking...)

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#242
post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Because mobs like these are totally open to intellectual discourse and reason. If only the professor had done more to be courteous and empathize with the students' desired ends /s

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/the-new-...

But to your point, passing the Ideological Turing Test is something that I think is worth aspiring to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_Turing_Test

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#243
post #212

It doesn't help that campuses increasingly operate like day cares: they treat adult students like children. A great example is orientation. Throughout the US, until fairly recently (at my Alma Mater, SUNY New Paltz - it was 1973), orientation was 100% run by students with no state or 'administrative' involvement. And it was an adult event. It involved camping, orienteering, and serious discussions about the life ahea…

I've noticed this as well. My fiancee attends a school to train Nurse Anesthetists. All of the students are previously professional nurses with multi-year work experiences. The school treats all of them like children. They treat them like they're not professionals and they're incapable of being responsible. As an outsider, it's the most frustrating thing in the world because I just want to slap these people and knock some reason and respect into them.

It doesn't help too that it's a Seventh-Day Adventist school and we're both atheists. But it's the only school in town so...

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And honestly, I'm fine with that. Universities are for learning, and real learning comes from doing. The questions the students were grappling with are real ones. I expect they misapplied them here, as the yoga traditions I'm familiar with are mostly conscious Indian exports, their effort to share something with the world. But students should frequently get things wrong, because that's how real learning happens.

Learning only happens when there are consequences for being wrong. Aside from being ridiculed by people they disagree with and thus don't care about being ridiculed by, they have faced no consequences.

You're trying overly hard to rationalize something here.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm asian. I don't feel threatened by black crime when it's also shown that police target black people for arrest more than whites and that the system is often stacked against black people. I'm more uncomfortable that white males are shooting up schools in my country several times a year because there's nothing being done pointing this demographic out. Your experience doesn't reflect the experience of all others.

What gives you the right to invalidate my father's feelings? You don't understand his lived experience (he was present at a major Islamic terrorist attack) at all! I believe that's the standard social justice retort to your claims. Being a more logically minded person, I'll instead invert it; your retort to my comment is that one person in the aforementioned demographic (e.g. a white/asian male) doesn't agree with me…

I don't understand why you are dismissing claims as social justice and then trying to claim you are a more logically minded person.

How is the claim that not all asian people agree with your father or had traumatic experiences with terrorism also invalidating experiences your father had? You claim to be a logical minded person but I'm not following the logic that your father's experiences are invalidated when someone says they don't share that view.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Along those lines, I think formal debate should be required in secondary education, and students should be required to defend the position they disagree with.

That would be nice, but is "formal debate" taught anymore? What I've seen lately (finished grad school 5 years ago) that is called "debate" at a university is far from what I remember when I did undergrad in the '80's.

Not sure...never had any debate as a part of my education (through grad school). I think they should start in high school though because if you're going to be a participant in an informed electorate you need to be able to process and articulate both sides of an argument. A casual glance at a few facebook timelines and twitter feeds suggest this is a horribly rare skill these days.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#247

I do find it a pity that people on both sides feel that their points are so "common sense" correct that they have no reason to educate, and that people who disagree are being somehow deliberately obtuse. I think sometimes they feel it justifies to people the use of strawmen, because it's almost not worth their time dealing with such obviousness. The whole idea of "being yourself" has a lot of nuance that has been lef…

Of course every subject is incredibly difficult if you're drowning in moral relativism and are thus incapable of judicious thought.

This is not about "being yourself"-euphemism for doing as you please with utter disregard for everything including yourself-, this is about taking responsibility for your actions, about having the honesty and strong enough morals to judge.

The "being yourself" vs "chasing one's potential" you talk about is the difference between animal and human.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#248
post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

Doesn't matter. There's an anecdote about a student being a crybaby and that's the biggest threat facing humanity today. Get with the program. We can deal with the Christians once we sort out the safe spacers.

> the biggest threat facing humanity today.

Hyperbole?

> We can deal with the Christians

I don't want to deal with the Christians. I don't agree with their worldview most of the time, but the don't need to be dealt with.

> once we sort out the safe spacers

They are the safe spacers, just by a different name. Also, I think safe spaces are fine and they don't need sorted out.

I was just making an observation on his hypocrisy and that safe spaces are not just for left-leaning people. He has cultivated a safe space for Christians and is bemoaning safe spaces for potential non-Christians.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#249
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - a white supremacist took a quantity from the DOJ, then took a percentage from the DOJ, and multiplied them together to get a new quantity. Does multiplication become invalid when a white supremacist does it? Or do DOJ stats become false when a racist cites them? Please, I would like to understand your logic. I do find it a bit scary that when I google "black on white crime", only racist sites sho…

You don't understand why when you google a complex topic such as "crime" and then apply a narrow, racial lens to it, mostly racist organizations show up? The term "X on Y crime" is suggesting that the relevant information about people who commit crimes and are victims of crime can be summarized by the color of their skin. That's as racist of a notion as it gets.

Correct. There is clearly something interesting happening in the data - it's very far from what you'd get by random chance. That seems to be worth studying, yet no one seems to be doing it. The point is not that it can be perfectly summarized by skin color, the point is that there is clearly something happening and it would be great to find out what.

Of course, as it relates to my original post, the only relevant fact is that indeed there is something happening that a white male might have reason to feel irrational fear of. (The table shows that most crime is intra-racial, not inter-racial)

Let me remind you of the original point: various people are feeling irrationally large amounts of fear but that fear is of a real thing (either historical, as in maaku's case, or real but exaggerated things in the case I described).

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#250
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? This is a pretty ridiculous comment you're making here. Freedom of speech and expression has, is, and always will be more important than one's personal comfort. That said, these people are just as free to voice these small minded, selfish complaints as I am to ignore them.

> Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? No one is arguing for this.

Yes...actually they are. That's what a trigger warning is.

It's insisting that a declaration be given in advance to remove someone from the possibility of having to cope with something uncomfortable.

A safe space is an echo chamber.

If we really want to know the cause of these tendencies, we need only look to the internet. You used to need to find a group of people to hang out with in your area and in doing so you'd associate with the social norms of that group, whatever they may be.

Now you craft your friend's list on Facebook with people who agree with you and reinforce you. If you've ever clicked the "unfollow" button you're guilty of this. This reinforcement leads to an echo chamber.

As a culture, we're effectively putting canvasing over logic and reason in all areas. That's essentially what you get from a social feed that reinforces your views - constant news that agrees with you...which is just canvasing yourself.

Canvasing feeds on feelings and reaction over reason. You look at just about any socially convenient topic and you'll see this. Just as an example, let's look at diversity in tech since this is Hacker News.

We're more than willing to accost the entire industry for lack of diversity as if it's somehow their fault. Yet most of these companies are falling all over themselves to hire people and we aren't hearing stories about discrimination or people not getting jobs...we just see the numbers and assume something is wrong.

We're not allowed to consider that people might tend to just be wired a certain way. Men's brains work differently than women's. Certain problems might be interesting to certain types of people and not to other.

Instead we create a cause and a problem that must be fixed immediately. We look at it from an emotional perspective rather than looking at all of the factors involved to just see if it happens to just be a general tendency or a real problem.

A problem is more marketable...so we go with that instead.

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