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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#81

Post by chimeracoder »

victorhooi wrote: post #71
frobozz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Either the complainant is a troll, or doesn't exist. No normal person would attend a sermon at the chapel of a given faith, and complain that the sermon victimises them for being a poor practitioner of that faith. This is doubly true when its about something universal like love, rather than how well you practice some specific ritual.

Do you have any evidence of this claim (that it's a troll or "doesn't exist"), other than just your assertion that no normal person would do this? I can assure you that I know plenty of young people who would do something like this - heck, I'm a young person (and also a Christian), and whilst I probably wouldn't be brave enough to actually approach a lecturer and voice such thoughts, I am sure that in a moment of wea…

> When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck.

Well, this goes both ways.

Like most HN threads on this topic, this discussion is largely full of reactions against perceived "victimization", devoid of any self-reflection about what merit the complaints might actually have.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#82

Post by coldpie »

Juliate wrote: post #36
icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality

No one is arguing for this.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#83

Post by yummyfajitas »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things.

Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types.

My father feels unsafe (on my behalf) when he watches various Islamic terror attacks on the news. I was in Amsterdam last week, which is sort of near Paris and Brussels (though the Dutch seem to integrate their Muslims far better), and he was worried about my safety. In reality I'm far more likely to die from drinking Belgian beer, eating a space cake and then falling into a canal.

I'm sure most of us agree that his feelings are completely irrational and entirely his problem. So why aren't the irrational fears held by various student groups treated the same way?

[1] http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race...

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#84

Post by coldpie »

givinguflac wrote: post #66
icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? This is a pretty ridiculous comment you're making here. Freedom of speech and expression has, is, and always will be more important than one's personal comfort. That said, these people are just as free to voice these small minded, selfish complaints as I am to ignore them.

> Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas?

No one is arguing for this.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#85

Post by Overtonwindow »

This is really fantastic. While I don't agree with religion in university (but if it works for you great!) I completely agree with the gist of her argument. Students are coddled too much. If you're not uncomfortable then you're not paying attention. If you need "trigger warnings" or "safe spaces" at a university then you're not ready for university, or at the very least, you have a lot of growing up to do.

This may sound harsh but it's reality, and the real problems in life won't be at university, they'll be out in the real world. There are no safe spaces and trigger warnings in the real world.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#87

Post by _petronius »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #42
_petronius wrote: post #13

"If you’re more interested in playing the “hater” card than you are in confessing your own hate; if you want to arrogantly lecture, rather than humbly learn ..." I agree with the fundamental point about mistaking being offended (or made to feel guilty) for victimization, that being said: There is such a thing as opression and the sidelining of the concerns of groups within society that are already marginalized. This…

This needs to be said more often, and louder. Myself, I find it disconcerting that the only counterweight to the "Friendly Spacers" are found on the far right.

To be clear: I am not in any way opposed to the creation of safe spaces and contexts where people can be free of the shit that is heaped upon them by the culture at large.

The fact is, the world can be pretty freaking hostile if you're gay, trans, a woman, from a minority ethnic group, or otherwise part of a group that is not mainstream. The hair-raising experiences related to me by friends of mine have made it utterly clear to me that I live an awfully privileged life in that regard (specifically, going about my daily life never for a moment worried that I would be sexually harassed or discriminated against).

There are people that mistake "not being pandered to" with "being victimized", but there are also a lot of people who experience these things in an absolutely genuine fashion.

So I'm not trying to act as a "counterweight" to anything, except the extreme cynicism of the author, and people who mistake being challenged in their views for being attacked.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#88

Post by SolaceQuantum »

d_theorist wrote: post #43
icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

Nobody is proposing that these people should be silenced, or not allowed to express the view. We are just saying that their view is wrong, and childish, and a danger to civilisation.

I think it's an exaggeration to say that someone's view is dangerous to civilization.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#89

Post by whatok »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #72
whatok wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why has all the hyper-sensitivity only come to the forefront over the past few years then?

Why do you think it's only been the last few years? It's always existed. The internet allows people to now convene to discuss these issues and establish acceptable behaviors.

I don't know how much actual discussion (vs preaching to the choir) occurs on the internet when anyone with a remotely differing view is immediately told that they are wrong for not agreeing 100% and shortly after has a Twitter mob doxing them.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#90

Post by coldpie »

madaxe_again wrote: post #62
cJ0th wrote: post #11

"I like to offend people, because I think that everyone who gets offended, should be offended." -- Linus Torvalds

One takes offence, one does not give it. It's an idiopathic condition. I'm a white male, but I grew up being called Gwailo, Gaijin, Auslander, and when I finally returned to the anglosphere in my early teens, I was still an outsider as I spoke with a weird accent and was by that point a through-and-through third culture kid. I got the crap bullied out of me, and eventually figured out that it only hurt if I took it t…

> Folks need to have thicker skin

Why?

Congratulations on being such a paragon of excellence. Why should we require such virtue of all humans? Instead of expecting you to develop a thick skin (are you sure this is a good thing?), why can't we try to reform your aggressors in the first place?

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