This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University • Hacker News Board

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#71

Post by victorhooi » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:51 PM UTC

frobozz wrote: post #61

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Indeed. Either the complainant is a troll, or doesn't exist. No normal person would attend a sermon at the chapel of a given faith, and complain that the sermon victimises them for being a poor practitioner of that faith. This is doubly true when its about something universal like love, rather than how well you practice some specific ritual.

Do you have any evidence of this claim (that it's a troll or "doesn't exist"), other than just your assertion that no normal person would do this?

I can assure you that I know plenty of young people who would do something like this - heck, I'm a young person (and also a Christian), and whilst I probably wouldn't be brave enough to actually approach a lecturer and voice such thoughts, I am sure that in a moment of weakness I could certainly think such things internally (which in some sense, is nearly or just as bad). So my assertion is based both on knowing my own peers and being honest about myself.

When somebody calls us out for something, it's only natural to want to blame somebody else - it takes an incredible amount of self-awareness and discipline to immediately jump to self-reflection, without trying to pass the buck. Sure, we may get there in the end, but it's often a journey of various emotions to get to that epiphany.

Are you saying you are one of those people? Or that you believe most people are like that?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#72

Post by SolaceQuantum » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

whatok wrote: post #64

maaku wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

Why has all the hyper-sensitivity only come to the forefront over the past few years then?

Why do you think it's only been the last few years? It's always existed. The internet allows people to now convene to discuss these issues and establish acceptable behaviors.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#73

Post by skywhopper » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:53 PM UTC

I Corinthians 13 is indeed a great and laudable passage. But I suspect there was something more in the sermon that triggered the complaint.

As for victimization and oversensitivity, I agree that it's a good thing to be subjected to challenging viewpoints when you're at a university. It's also important to have a platform for responding to viewpoints you don't like. I suspect that attendance at sermons is required at Oklahoma Wesleyan, and I further suspect that students are strongly discouraged from publicly espousing views contrary to the content of those sermons. This doesn't make for a healthy university setting.

That said, writing childish outrage screeds lambasting "victim culture" is not exactly a noble or loving response to the student's complaint. This essay sounds like it was written in about five minutes while in full rage mode about the "kids these days".

The "victim culture" accusation alwasy strikes me as sadly ironic coming from a political wing that claims victimization of the overwhelming majority relgion and culture due to the design of Starbucks cups, the use of the phrase "Happy Holidays", or the existence of mosques. I think the word is "projection"...

Edit/Update: After browsing some other articles in the OKWU "News" section, I'm sorry to see this overtly political screed was posted to Hacker News at all. This university appears to be a branch of Fox News, rather than an educational institution.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#74

Post by adwn » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

maze-le wrote: post #9

lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

Most baffling is that they seem to be the majority by now...

Probably not the majority, but a very loud minority.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#75

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #27

Yet another post for HN to one-up each other decrying the "PC culture" with plenty of "kids these days" rants, while completely avoiding taking the charitable position and putting ourselves in their shoes. The amount of hypocrisy that comes with the claims that these students should "learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas" is staggering. Guess what: these students are presenting us with an "uncomfortable idea" and th…

[deleted]

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#76

Post by chillingeffect » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

> you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view.

This habit is extremely powerful. There's no way to require people to do it, but people who do it, at least know the arguments of their opponents, are in such a better position to get what they want that people who don't are left standing, mouths open wondering what happened.

And it's extremely timely as just two weeks ago, President Obama gave this quote:

"I don't want you to think that a display of your strength is simply shutting other people up. And that part of your ability to bring about change is going to be by engagement and understanding the viewpoints and the arguments of the other side."

People don't realize that college already is the safe place where they can develop the habits of empathy and conflict-management. Getting called "bitch" and seeing mice are the least of their problems. Those are going to happen in the real-world no matter what. College isn't a place to preserve themselves from these inevitable, superficial insults, it's a place to develop leadership, contribution and cooperation abilities to get big things done like feeding, improving, healing, leading the world, etc.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#77

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:54 PM UTC

c0achmcguirk wrote: post #20

Outstanding article on many counts. It also reminds me of a recent article I read on Psychology Today [1] that talks about fragile students: "Students are increasingly seeking help for, and apparently having emotional crises over, problems of everyday life. Recent examples mentioned included a student who felt traumatized because her roommate had called her a “bitch” and two students who had sought counseling because…

Decades of pat advice to "seek counseling" rather than deal with it as the answer to every problem, from the schoolyard fight to any other kind of interpersonal problem, from "Dear Abby" and any number of more recent pop psychologists, helecopter parents, to school and workplace policies, etc. Funny to see that complaint in Psychology Today, as they are probably as guilty as anyone in bringing about this state of affairs.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#78

Post by aswanson » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Along those lines, I think formal debate should be required in secondary education, and students should be required to defend the position they disagree with.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#79

Post by ousta » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

welcome to modern day USA. This Dr. Everett Pipper is probably living his last remaining days of employment and will soon be on food stamps thanks to the PC Cops. Just like the Yale guy. Just like any one who is not totally formated to fit in a system. A system weak, sterile, that fires teachers on the purpose of teaching "offending" thing to kids that wear the latest air jordans - Made by a famished third world kid in some sweatshop - that will file a complaint to the PC Cops, destroy a teacher life then quietly go home eat a peanut butter sandwich made by underpaid farmers and turn on the tv - soldered by low paid workforce - just in TIME to watch a disney POPSTAR totally naked on a wrecking ball singing sexual content pop songs on the purpose of defending feminism.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#80

Post by JustSomeNobody » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 1:55 PM UTC

frobozz wrote: post #61

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Indeed. Either the complainant is a troll, or doesn't exist. No normal person would attend a sermon at the chapel of a given faith, and complain that the sermon victimises them for being a poor practitioner of that faith. This is doubly true when its about something universal like love, rather than how well you practice some specific ritual.

Sure they do.

People will complain about ... well ... just about anything.