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A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

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Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#71

Post by dmix »

jacquesm wrote: post #49
tptacek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. J Edgar Hoover did do this. Of course, Hoover is also one of the great villains of US history, and there was a major course-correction in the 1970s regarding the legal process federal law enforcement has to adhere to. "The FBI is run by the modern equivalent of J. Edgar Hoover" is also an amusing and dramatic interpretation of the facts we have now. But they don't square well with other facts we know, su…

Hoover had plenty of apologists who were arguing that he was using these tactics only for good causes (such as against communism, today it would be terrorism or child pornography), it took a long time before anybody dared to speak out against this, he was simply too powerful. Most likely today such direct blackmail of (domestic) politicians and other officials is not the case but you can't really rule it out complete…

> The bad thing is that the reputation of the FBI and other such agencies is now such that an analogy with the Hoover days can no longer be rejected out of hand 'because they'd never do such a thing'.

Not only that but when someone's life is as public as a politician - and their career dependent on that credibility - it takes far less than Hoover-era style blackmail to ruin such a person.

So even if the FBI is no longer acting like the Hoover era agents there are significant careers risks in standing up to the three-letter agencies, (and their similarily-powerful network of friends and former employees). Those risks have only grown as the power of the NSA/FBI have grown with the spread of technology/internet.

The bar for making such a claim is much lower than in the 1950s, especially in the context of a politician.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#73

Post by tn13 »

raquo wrote: post #23
jimrandomh wrote: post #8

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

I think FBI and other related agencies share their power with those who are responsible for holding them accountable. We will see more and more of these problems as Federal government tries to snatch more power from states in the name of national security, welfare or environment.

This is not a problem that can be solved through evolutionary way but would require some real drastic moves by some courageous political leader. We could find one Snowden among several Fed employees I am pretty sure we will find more.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#76

Post by jMyles »

tptacek wrote: post #29
jamoes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

Although this is a very plausible scenario, I'm not sure it's the "simpler" answer. It requires an incredible political will in favor of an extraordinarily controversial set of programs.

It seems to me that the "simpler" explanation is that these programs, whose existence and scope are no longer in dispute, have indeed generated intelligence about questionable conduct of members of / leadership of one or both houses of congress.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#77

Post by profeta »

jamoes wrote: post #25
raquo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

do not forget that Snowden made it pretty clear the NSA was spying on the German Prime Minister, for the german intelligence agency! ...guess what may have been the offer they had. My guess? One agency spy on the other's leader as part of the job, exchange for its own leader info = ultimate power without the risk of a treason charge while investigating your own leader.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#78

Post by peteretep »

brandonmenc wrote: post #41
jamoes wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

> The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's shocking how rarely you hear this angle on things, but it's easily the most sinister aspect of these programs.

It's also the one that will most likely kill these programs dead. Neither party wants security agencies picking winners for them, or deciding who gets to be in Congress.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#79

Post by peteretep »

tracker1 wrote: post #52

This is part of why the ACLU, EFF and NRA are the institutions I'm most in favor of donating to. The encroachment of civil liberties, increasingly intrusive actions from our own government and the like are getting pretty rediculous.

    > ACLU, EFF and NRA
I consider my neighbour being able to own an assault rifle as an encroachment of my civil liberties.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#80

Post by pheroden »

cvwright wrote: post #65
Estragon wrote: post #64

The only plausible presidential candidate who'll put a stop to these kinds of abuses is Bernie Sanders. Be sure to vote for him in your Democratic Primary.

Isn't Rand Paul also making similar promises on the Republican side?

He said plausible.
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