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A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

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Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Panic. When cornered people make strange moves. It's easy enough to look at this rationally after the fact but I'm trying to imagine being in the focal point of such a powerplay and I'm not sure I'd make every move by the book.

Ok. You see, though, how his holding action probably harmed his users, right?

Still a hero though.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#32
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are Aldous Huxley's version of totalitarianism, where we are drugged and entertained into submission.

Yeah, but I'm wondering more about the inaction of other federal powers. Congress, President, I don't really know whose job it is, but someone in this country should have the power to deal with rogue government agencies? They don't appoint themselves.

The President has all the power to curtail these abuses. Unfortunately, reducing your own power is not something that comes naturally to most people. Additionally, any reduction in the national security apparatus will be a political disaster if another terrorist attack happens, so inaction is the prudent political course. It’s a tough problem to deal with and currently it seems a majority of Americans are more concerned with security than freedom. Until that changes, our elected officials will likely just voice concern and persist with the status quo.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#33
post #29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? My suspicion is that the FBI and various three-letter-agencies have dirt on most of the elected representatives. The mass surveillance apparatus is the perfect tool for collecting blackmail material on current and future leaders.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

The FBI's founding director had this very tactic as his modus operandi. It isn't hard to speculate that the culture of the FBI has supported political extortion for well over 80 years now.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#34

Key quote: "According to the Justice Department’s inspector general, the FBI issued a staggering 143,074 NSLs between 2003 and 2005. And every NSL was accompanied by a categorical and permanent gag order." That's almost one per 2000 americans. I wonder how does this number compare to actual court orders.

Another key quote: > I found it particularly difficult to be silent about my concerns while Congress was debating the reauthorization of the Patriot Act in 2005 and early 2006. If I hadn't been under a gag order, I would have contacted members of Congress to discuss my experiences and to advocate changes in the law. The inspector general's report confirms that Congress lacked a complete picture of the problem during…

Wow - it's astonishing that you can't even speak about NSLs with people who (or at least some of whom) have top secret clearance...

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#35

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

Note that the courts striking down a law is a rebuke to Congress, not the executive agencies exercising it. Nor have I heard anything about the FBI ignoring court decisions - the second court case was the result of an amendment to the law, and its final result on appeal was not to ban NSLs, but merely to increase the role of the courts in evaluating their validity, and, if the recipient of one wishes to challenge it, to force the government to initiate the lawsuit rather than the recipient. Relatively dry stuff. It's hard to see how any of this implies that law enforcement has "gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts", except the one instance of misleading Congress about the number of NSLs issued, a decade ago.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#36
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is certainly the most amusing and dramatic explanation of what's happening. A simpler explanation might just be that Congress broadly supports what DOJ is doing, and cares a lot less about the integrity of specific online services than they do about DOJ's role in combating terrorism, nuclear proliferation, and foreign intelligence services.

The FBI's founding director had this very tactic as his modus operandi. It isn't hard to speculate that the culture of the FBI has supported political extortion for well over 80 years now.

That's true. J Edgar Hoover did do this. Of course, Hoover is also one of the great villains of US history, and there was a major course-correction in the 1970s regarding the legal process federal law enforcement has to adhere to.

"The FBI is run by the modern equivalent of J. Edgar Hoover" is also an amusing and dramatic interpretation of the facts we have now. But they don't square well with other facts we know, such as Ashcroft's hospital-bed refusal to reauthorize STELLARWIND. And that was John Ashcroft, who is not exactly a cuddly Sesame Street muppet on these issues.

In case I need to make this clear:

I don't think sacrificing the integrity of online services for DOJ goals is a good tradeoff. The wins seem very marginal, and the long-term costs are huge. But I'm a technologist with a security/privacy concentration, and Congress is composed mostly of lawyers.

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#37
Almost all major internet companies have to deal with NSLs. For example:

Facebook: https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/20...

Google: https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/U...

Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/transparency

More could be found at: https://www.accessnow.org/pages/transparency-reporting-index

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#38
post #23

This is reporting that Nick Merrill, who was under a gag order restricting his ability to talk about a subpoena he received in 2004, is no longer gagged. It links to an editorial he wrote (anonymously) about that gag order, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03... , in which he writes: > "Based on the context of the demand -- a context that the FBI still won't let me discuss publicly -- I suspe…

> By all appearances, a significant chunk of the US law enforcement apparatus has simply gone rogue, stopped respecting Congress and the courts and is instead focused on increasing its own power. I truly don't understand why nothing is done about that. Why doesn't anyone lose their job over this, let alone go to jail? I mean, I've gotten used to such indifference in Russia, but US seemed like the country that shouldn…

There's no incentive to fix it and plenty of incentive to let it remain "Someone Else's Problem" or indeed make it worse.

See also: military industrial complex, corporate lobbying, the blue line, security theater, budget in-fighting

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#39
post #31
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. You see, though, how his holding action probably harmed his users, right?

Still a hero though.

He heroically lost the crypto keys to all of his users data in order to try to protect one user's data?

To me, there's a difference between a "hero" and "not the worst person in a particular conflict".

Re: A Decade-Old Gag Order, Lifted

#40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another key quote: > I found it particularly difficult to be silent about my concerns while Congress was debating the reauthorization of the Patriot Act in 2005 and early 2006. If I hadn't been under a gag order, I would have contacted members of Congress to discuss my experiences and to advocate changes in the law. The inspector general's report confirms that Congress lacked a complete picture of the problem during…

Wow - it's astonishing that you can't even speak about NSLs with people who (or at least some of whom) have top secret clearance...

Just because you're cleared in one area/agency doesn't mean you have access to anything of that level or lower. Clearances are entirely need to know.

I'm not sure of the rules today, but 10 years ago clearances in some agencies/departments didn't even transfer to other agencies due to differing requirements.

(I'm not saying that this system is good, just describing how it works.)

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