Is udemy just a scam site that trades ofd consumer confusion in with Udacity?
Pirated Courses on Udemy
151–160 of 254 posts
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
I expect it's true that they lose safe harbor, but I couldn't find anything saying that. Are you just guessing?
17 U.S. Code § 512 - Limitations on liability relating to material online (c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks At Direction of Users.— "(1)In general.—A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a sy…
> That's the killer. This service not only charges, they charge on a per-course basis.
That seems relatively easy to weasel your way out of. Just sell 'download tokens' which enable the user to download any course on the site they want. Whatever legal argument YouTube is using to protect themselves from this with their new premium subscription would also have to apply here.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#153I feel like the OP highlights a problem common to the new breed of "marketplace" platforms like Uber, Airbnb, and Udemy. All of these substitute open, public, regulated markets (taxis, hotels, universities) with closed, private, unregulated markets. Once a near-monopoly is reached, the rules of the marketplace can be changed to benefit the marketplace owner (instead of the service provider).
The barriers to entry (absent new Uber or AirBnB -specific regulations) are too low for either to ever gain "near-monopoly".
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're in the business of selling content you damn well ought to know who's content your selling. I'm not saying any system would be completely bulletproof, but you should at least look like you're TRYING.
So if I lease commercial land it's my responsibility to make sure my renter isn't laundering money? Whatever argument you make should also explain why the web hosting provider isn't also responsible for hosting and distributing pirated content. Certainly they should also look like they're trying to prevent copyright infringement on their network. > but you should at least look like you're TRYING. This kind of logic i…
Your metaphor isn't quite right, a better one would be "should a distributor of a given product be held responsible for determining if the goods they're given are stolen?" To that I would say:
1. A distributor would only use vetted manufacturers, or at least not buy from one again when the products purchased turn out to be stolen
2. When the products are digital, it's much easier to check if they are stolen than physical ones.
3. If it's been determined that a product is stolen, the distributor (generally) isn't held responsible but also isn't allowed to continue selling from the same stock.
Also, I would argue that while it's impossible to detect everything (which is what I said initially too) there should be some legal requirement that the given distributor should show a reasonable attempt to enforce copyright law. The Content ID system, discounting all the ways its abused by a few big companies, is an excellent system for detecting copyright material, and would definitely show that YouTube is at least trying to prevent the spread of material that isn't legal. At the same time, it's clear by this post at least that Udemy is not only NOT vetting their content whatsoever but, similar to Facebook, makes the process to report said content intentionally difficult which I'm sure is not at all related to the fact that as long as said content is live, they're making money.
In short, there's a difference between being a store owner who mistakenly bought stolen products one time, or being a distributor who makes regular business off of stolen product. One shouldn't be held to the fire, one really should.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is "you people"? People who pirate, or people in tech? What makes you think they're one and the same?
The parent is referring to the typical attitude that's normally on display here about piracy of music, books, movies, etc. It usually ranges from the dismissive to claims that it actually benefits artists to the occasional bit of "fuck the artists" truth. (That's more or less verbatim from one thread I saw.) You'll also hear a lot of libertarian and/or fluffy pseudo-socialist arguments for abolishing IP law when this…
Writing the kind of thorough examination of these issues your post deserves would be biting off way more than I could chew right now, so I'll just make some random remarks instead.
People pirating entertainment isn't exactly "the free market" in action, but it's close. The common denominator is people doing what they want to, when no one intervenes in their activities.
So if there's nothing to deter people from pirating movies, or to punish them for it, then they'll go ahead and pirate movies. The risk is really small, and the reward is (practically) instant gratification. Very few would pass that up.
On the one hand, I think IP laws shouldn't exist. They're not meant to benefit the creators anyway, but the entertainment industry BigCorps instead.
On the other hand, I think it's wrong, to a small extent, to pirate movies or music or anything else someone has created and put up for sale.
There's a deal available to you, and it's up to you whether you'll take it. You get something, the creator gets money, and both are more or less happy. But if you circumvent the deal by downloading the product instead, that's comparable to stealing without the creator actually losing the product.
Of course, the entertainment industry equates pirating with actual stealing, because it's more impactful that way. That's dishonest too.
But all in all, people will act according to incentives, and they will pursue their personal gain and the satisfaction of their wants and needs. Nothing's going to change that, so it's pointless to even try.
Ultimately IP laws do way more harm than good, and they're not meant to benefit us little guys anyway.
Think of all the patent lawsuits flying around in the US, or that piece of shit Martin Shkreli charging outrageous prices for drugs people need to survive, etc.
All of that follows from IP laws existing too. So it's not just about "creators" getting what they deserve, it's all the scummy other stuff too.
Besides, what anyone deserves for his creation, is whatever he can get people to voluntarily pay for it. Nothing more, nothing less. That's something to keep in mind too. If there's no market for someone's creation, that doesn't mean there should be legislation that makes people pay for it.
Alright, I guess that's enough rambling now.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Downvotes are probably because hardcore copyright-abusing tactics employed by the entertainment industry to save their outdated business models are not particularly popular 'round here. The fact that they exist does not mean one should use them. I see the point you're making though (copyright violation by a for-profit company is just wrong, both morally and legally), and i upvoted to compensate.
I understand that "copyright abuse" is frowned upon. (and I'm not arguing against you, I just find what they're doing to be completely unreasonable). But this is the exact opposite. This is a company flagrantly copying someones work without permissions. And in ACADEMIA. IIRC, you could be thrown out of school for plagiarism, we shouldn't disregard an academic institution doing this exact thing.
The company isn't stealing the videos, other users are. As long as they take it down promptly and then refund customers, what are they doing wrong? Where's the outrage at youtube then which allows for the same thing? Or paypal or stripe or any ecommerce product which allows for selling something?
It's a problem that's explained and handled by the DMCA, the issue is making sure the company actually follows through with handling requests promptly and accurately.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is "you people"? People who pirate, or people in tech? What makes you think they're one and the same?
The parent is referring to the typical attitude that's normally on display here about piracy of music, books, movies, etc. It usually ranges from the dismissive to claims that it actually benefits artists to the occasional bit of "fuck the artists" truth. (That's more or less verbatim from one thread I saw.) You'll also hear a lot of libertarian and/or fluffy pseudo-socialist arguments for abolishing IP law when this…
I can't speak for everyone who pirated music, but back in the day when I did, it was because a CD was $15 and I couldn't afford that shit for every single song I wanted. When iTunes first showed up I thought it was a good idea, but the music came with the DRM bullshit. Then later, Amazon MP3 came around: Reasonable prices for ala-carte tracks, no DRM. I haven't stolen a single song since.
Piracy by most people is a failure of the market to provide. Look at the most pirated content: movies, music, television. All of these have a common vein; traditionally these media are distributed in specific and timed ways, usually at different times around the world, at different prices and at different venues, and all of it for no real reason.
Why should a hardcore fan of Metallica have to wait another three weeks for their new CD just because he lives in a different country?
Why should someone who loves Peter Jackson's movies have to sit and watch his friends in the United States see the movie he can't for another four weeks because he doesn't live in the right spot?
It's all ancient, trivial nonsense and was treated as such. I heard this so many times from me and other people like me: I would totally pay for this, but I have no way of doing so. Such rigid controls on availability of easily pirated content breed piracy and make criminals out of people who otherwise would never have been.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#158Udemy is just a ecommerce/merchant service that just happens to be tailored for hosting video series. This is no different than users stealing content and then uploading to youtube or selling it through a paypal/gumroad/stripe link. In every case the companies would be making a profit either through ads or transactions.
The fault is with the user who uploaded the content and the most effective and realistic option for companies that host user provided content is the DMCA process. No matter how good the filtering process (and I do think Udemy needs to improve vastly here) it's never going to catch everything and this situation is all explained and handled by the DMCA.
The real issue is how they're handling the takedown requests. If they are prompt and accurate with the takedowns and refunding customers then there should be no issue. How they get their own money back from the fraud user is their problem as well. If Udemy is not handling takedowns or refunding customers, then there definitely is a problem and that should be met with actual legal action, not just social/twitter justice.
Edit - why the instant downvotes? haven't seen much other than emotional rants about how Udemy is profiteering but no evidence that the proper DMCA process was followed but denied.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
The parent is referring to the typical attitude that's normally on display here about piracy of music, books, movies, etc. It usually ranges from the dismissive to claims that it actually benefits artists to the occasional bit of "fuck the artists" truth. (That's more or less verbatim from one thread I saw.) You'll also hear a lot of libertarian and/or fluffy pseudo-socialist arguments for abolishing IP law when this…
Can't agree more or upvote this high enough. As a programmer working in an entertainment medium (video games), I can understand both of the (caricatured) sides you posit. Ultimately my sympathies rest with content creators whose experience of the "disruptive" forces of technology and contemporary startup culture is a net negative to their individual livelihoods and their profession more generally. I'm all for technol…
Agree with everything here. I enjoy the startups sticking it to the entrenched, backwards industries but they have a nasty habit of leaving a lot of innocent people stuck in the crossfire.
Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
IANAL, but DMCA applies to penalties, not to the issue of whether or not they're infringing copyright. Though, I will note that Udemy does have a designated agent in regards to DMCA Safe Harbor, so the OP may want to check that they submitted complains the correct place: > Via E-mail: copyright@udemy.com[1] [1] https://www.udemy.com/terms/copyright/
The guy I was replying to was saying they should have huge damages, which they won't as long as they remove it promptly.
It's the same guy...