Pirated Courses on Udemy • Hacker News Board

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#141

Post by SeanBoocock » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:26 AM UTC

api wrote: post #100

personjerry wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is "you people"? People who pirate, or people in tech? What makes you think they're one and the same?

The parent is referring to the typical attitude that's normally on display here about piracy of music, books, movies, etc. It usually ranges from the dismissive to claims that it actually benefits artists to the occasional bit of "fuck the artists" truth. (That's more or less verbatim from one thread I saw.) You'll also hear a lot of libertarian and/or fluffy pseudo-socialist arguments for abolishing IP law when this…

Can't agree more or upvote this high enough. As a programmer working in an entertainment medium (video games), I can understand both of the (caricatured) sides you posit. Ultimately my sympathies rest with content creators whose experience of the "disruptive" forces of technology and contemporary startup culture is a net negative to their individual livelihoods and their profession more generally.

I'm all for technology moving fast, even breaking things. I just want those agents of disruption to spend as much time cleaning up the mess they create in the process.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#142

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:29 AM UTC

mapgrep wrote: post #85

Lol you people are really amazing. No sense of irony? Really? Hey guess what, Silicon Valley has been doing this for nearly 20 years to other people. Funny how the HN crowd gets riled up when it happens to programmers. Movies cost tens of millions to make and employ hundreds if not thousands. Tv shows are maybe an order of magnitude smaller, records maybe one more. Any of those media products blow these aggrieved pro…

I think it is slightly different since Udemy is charging so much to view the infringing content. People weren't mad because it was free to view videos on youtube... youtube wasn't making money from the pirated content, in fact they were losing money in bandwidth costs... in contrast, Udemy is charging $19 for this guy's class... very different.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#143

Post by Animats » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:30 AM UTC

blazespin wrote: post #121

Animats wrote: post #34

You can go after Udemy. They're not just a hosting service. They claim ownership of the content . "Each of our 35,000+ courses is taught by an expert instructor". Many courses are paid. If Udemy charges for access to the course, they lose the DMCA safe harbor. Then they're liable for full copyright damages. This may even be criminal copyright infringment under 18 U.S. Code § 2319 (Criminal infringement of a copyright…

I expect it's true that they lose safe harbor, but I couldn't find anything saying that. Are you just guessing?

17 U.S. Code § 512 - Limitations on liability relating to material online

(c) Information Residing on Systems or Networks At Direction of Users.—

"(1)In general.—A service provider shall not be liable for monetary relief, or, except as provided in subsection (j), for injunctive or other equitable relief, for infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider, if the service provider—"

...

"(B) does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity, in a case in which the service provider has the right and ability to control such activity"[1]

That's the killer. This service not only charges, they charge on a per-course basis. That's direct financial benefit from the infringing activity.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#144

Post by rnovak » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:38 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #140

rnovak wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not the way copyright works. If you think it is, please, let RIAA know you've stolen some records and let's see how much they charge you. Last time I checked, users are sued for thousands of dollars per infringing instance, held up in court. Why shouldn't that hold for a COMPANY doing it? Seems a little unreasonable to me. Edit: and for people down-voting, please explain why?

Well, it is how the DMCA works. If the videos are uploaded by someone else (not by Udemy), then all they have to do is remove the video promptly if sent a DMCA request. If they did that, they would not be liable for damages.

IANAL, but DMCA applies to penalties, not to the issue of whether or not they're infringing copyright.

Though, I will note that Udemy does have a designated agent in regards to DMCA Safe Harbor, so the OP may want to check that they submitted complains the correct place:

> Via E-mail: copyright@udemy.com[1]

[1]https://www.udemy.com/terms/copyright/

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#145

Post by kzrdude » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:41 AM UTC

> But I had never seen a business actually profiting from piracy.

Youtube?

Facebook freebooting, too.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#146

Post by olalonde » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 4:41 AM UTC

wyclif wrote: post #90

sotojuan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything realy. Udemy has a terrible signal to noise ratio, and they do scummy stuff like what's going on here. Read a respected book, try Udacity or Coursera, or ask the community what course is good.

I don't know why kids these days are so down on programming ebooks. I have a ton of them in a Dropbox folder, and they're my main source of learning new programming languages. Sure, they date fast, can't be updated fast, and aren't interactive. They're old school now that we're in the era of MOOCs. But you can still learn a lot if you know what to look for, know how to skim, and know which books are good. Alternative…

> Alternatively: maybe I'm just old

Nah, when I was a kid there were no ebooks, we had to rent/buy physical books at the local library/bookstore.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#147

Post by zamalek » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 5:00 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #34

You can go after Udemy. They're not just a hosting service. They claim ownership of the content . "Each of our 35,000+ courses is taught by an expert instructor". Many courses are paid. If Udemy charges for access to the course, they lose the DMCA safe harbor. Then they're liable for full copyright damages. This may even be criminal copyright infringment under 18 U.S. Code § 2319 (Criminal infringement of a copyright…

> Get a lawyer. This looks winnable.

Remember: this should be your first step. If you want to resolve it amicably let your lawyer communicate that for you.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#148

Post by driverdan » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 5:06 AM UTC

wturner wrote: post #47

I don't want to derail this with a personal story but this might be useful. I wrote a JavaScript course that I was contracted by someone on Elance to do for very little ( relative to the amount of time I put into it ), he then sold it to another company, that company then put it on Udemy. For a small amount of time it was at the top of the list of beginner JavaScript courses and had over 10,000 students enrolled. I'm…

You agreed to do it for the price you were paid. What are you upset about? Did not not charge enough money? There's only one person to blame for that...

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#149

Post by cortesoft » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 5:07 AM UTC

rnovak wrote: post #144

cortesoft wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is how the DMCA works. If the videos are uploaded by someone else (not by Udemy), then all they have to do is remove the video promptly if sent a DMCA request. If they did that, they would not be liable for damages.

IANAL, but DMCA applies to penalties, not to the issue of whether or not they're infringing copyright. Though, I will note that Udemy does have a designated agent in regards to DMCA Safe Harbor, so the OP may want to check that they submitted complains the correct place: > Via E-mail: copyright@udemy.com[1] [1] https://www.udemy.com/terms/copyright/

The guy I was replying to was saying they should have huge damages, which they won't as long as they remove it promptly.

Re: Pirated Courses on Udemy

#150

Post by Spivak » Sat, Nov 28, 2015, 5:11 AM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #21

ps4fanboy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because how would you even do that with any sort of accuracy, do you check the global content registry database? Surely people dont expect to export the burden of protecting your IP to other companies?

If you're in the business of selling content you damn well ought to know who's content your selling. I'm not saying any system would be completely bulletproof, but you should at least look like you're TRYING.

So if I lease commercial land it's my responsibility to make sure my renter isn't laundering money?

Whatever argument you make should also explain why the web hosting provider isn't also responsible for hosting and distributing pirated content. Certainly they should also look like they're trying to prevent copyright infringement on their network.

> but you should at least look like you're TRYING.

This kind of logic is how an automatic 'review' process gets implemented which just spins for a few minutes and then then accepts the video. The problem of detecting copyrighted content is so complex that without source level access you would never be able to prove definitively that their review process is just theater.