Edit: to be fair, I mean stratification is appropriate at a project level of organization level, clearly you should be pigeonholed.
Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
21–30 of 54 posts
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#22>Is a front-end developer not a “real” developer if she can’t describe what a bubble sort is or does? Yes. Being able to accomplish one specific thing in a field, does not make you skilled in that trade. It makes you skilled at doing that specific thing. A farrier is not a blacksmith. A blacksmith would probably know how to forge a horseshoe but find it difficult to actually shoe the horse. They are not really in the…
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#23Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#24> Elitists aren’t interested in sharing knowledge, they’re interested in being the source of the knowledge.
Compare how easy it is to learn programming on the web to any other profession. Oh! And you can use only content that was created by professional programmers in their spare time (SO answers, forum posts, RTFMs and FAQs, all the free software), without actually using any content that was created by people who were paid for that (all the code academies) — and still learn pretty much everything.
> these novices have access to tools and shortcuts that the elitist never had
I don't think a lot of programmers actually think like that. I've never seen a programmer who declared that "if you never wrote a compiler, you're not a true programmer". This actually seems like a ridiculous strawman.
But regardless if you like it or not, there are "real" and "not-real" programmers, yes. Unfortunately, "not-real" programmers can actually have titles like "Lead Developer" and even "IT Director", but not be able to solve a FizzBuzz problem in a way that doesn't make hair stand up on your head. And for some reason, the quality of writing good code is correlated with such things as "learning programming for it's own merit", or "getting a CS degree from a good school", or "having a good understanding of mathematical logic and set theory".
(Once again, I have to repeat myself: _correlation_. If you decide that I'm saying that people without CS degrees aren't real programmers, it means that you don't know how to understand what you read).
So, I would never say that "coding academies are nonsense". Any loud, non-compromising statement of this kind is anti-intellectual and most of the time blatantly false. Even the concept of "realness" of a programmer as a binary trait is already oversimplified. But scepticism that IT professionals have about code academy graduates has a very serious root in reality.
It's not about being "threatened". It's about maintaining bad programmer's code.
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#25What a clickbait, provocative article with nothing beyond a single anecdote, not even a second one other than the generic "you've never written assembly so you're not a programmer" comment. Seriously has anyone heard a programmer say this in the last 10 years? Elitism exists everywhere and I don't see how software development is any better or worse than the rest. We have an arrogant vocal minority just like everyone…
Edit: Even better, someone has already done that in the comments here on HN for this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10637947
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#26> We should not stratify construction workers into classes. Of course. Any crane operator can be easily swapped for a forklift driver. When the latter are in shortage too, replace them with the bricklayers.
Your analogy is a good one for types of programmers - that disciplines of construction/software worker are not interchangeable (though lots of crane drivers can also drive a forklift). It misses the point of the article though. The article is tired of people saying "forklift driver's aren't real construction workers"... which sounds pretty silly. I think very few of us drive past a construction zone and question the…
Both do "construction", but the difference in skill and market supply/demand.
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#27GROWING elitism problem?!
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#28What a clickbait, provocative article with nothing beyond a single anecdote, not even a second one other than the generic "you've never written assembly so you're not a programmer" comment. Seriously has anyone heard a programmer say this in the last 10 years? Elitism exists everywhere and I don't see how software development is any better or worse than the rest. We have an arrogant vocal minority just like everyone…
Almost every time a PHP or JavaScript project is brought up here, the fact that it's written in PHP or JavaScript is always used to negatively comment on the project and author. Just because someone doesn't like a language, they see fit to demean the author. Edit: Even better, someone has already done that in the comments here on HN for this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10637947
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#29What a clickbait, provocative article with nothing beyond a single anecdote, not even a second one other than the generic "you've never written assembly so you're not a programmer" comment. Seriously has anyone heard a programmer say this in the last 10 years? Elitism exists everywhere and I don't see how software development is any better or worse than the rest. We have an arrogant vocal minority just like everyone…
And now everybody learns the same way?
I can tell you that for a self-taught person, learning by yourself is much faster and deeper than being taught by someone.
Re: Software Developers’ Growing Elitism Problem
#30What a clickbait, provocative article with nothing beyond a single anecdote, not even a second one other than the generic "you've never written assembly so you're not a programmer" comment. Seriously has anyone heard a programmer say this in the last 10 years? Elitism exists everywhere and I don't see how software development is any better or worse than the rest. We have an arrogant vocal minority just like everyone…
Almost every time a PHP or JavaScript project is brought up here, the fact that it's written in PHP or JavaScript is always used to negatively comment on the project and author. Just because someone doesn't like a language, they see fit to demean the author. Edit: Even better, someone has already done that in the comments here on HN for this article: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10637947
If you want an example of a real problem of elitism go look at the metastudies on narcissism, which talk about how the selection process for surgeons (brain surgeons especially) tends to select for egomaniacs and results in a very politically charged industry.