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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#411

Post by caskance »

karmacondon wrote: post #375
lumberjack wrote: post #25

These people act this way because they are elitist. They think they know what should be better than anyone else and therefore there is no need for debate or for rights like free speech. I find that quite ironic because presumably, these people subscribe to left leaning ideologies. But maybe there isn't so much of a contradiction. They are simply more elitist than they are anything else. They don't really stand for eq…

So if Common Joe's views on gender can be summarized as "Women should stay in the kitchen", is it elitist to not take that idea seriously? It has nothing to do with people's relative social or intellectual standing, and no one should have to bring themselves down to anyone else's level. Bad ideas are bad ideas, and should be labelled as such. It's hard to tell if someone making a controversial statement is doing so t…

It depends on whether you don't take that idea seriously because you have thought seriously about whether women should stay in the kitchen and have concluded that they shouldn't, or whether it's just because that's what Common Joe thinks.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#412

Post by [deleted] »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #182
nemo1618 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest failure of such people is that their own conduct serves as a terrible advertisement for the sort of worldview they promote. Look at these people: do you see happy, healthy, mindful, compassionate, self-confident, well-adjusted human beings? I don't. I see bitter, spiteful, demanding, insecure, Us-vs-Them types, perpetually searching for the next perceived slight. Are these the sort of people I'm supposed…

That's actually our biggest hope of getting rid of SJW phenomenon. The underhanded methods they use means also that as they grow, they start to turn on each other. The cancer gets cancer, and dies before it can grow too much. I think the general population will slowly realize that being evil is not the best strategy for making others better people.

[deleted]

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#413

Post by ps4fanboy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #407
ps4fanboy wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to be incarcerated for murder without someone actualy being murdered. Therefore the most effective way to avoid incarceration for murder is to stop murdering. People are not being wrongly incarcerated (wholesale) for violent crimes that dont exist, not being violent is sufficient to avoid incarceration for such crimes.

> Its hard to be incarcerated for murder without someone actualy being murdered. No, its hard (but not impossible) to be incarcerated for murder without someone being dead . In a system in which law enforcement, the judiciary, and/or the population from which juries are drawn are biased against people like you -- whether for race or other reasons -- it can be quite easy to be incarcerated (or worse!) for murder witho…

Are you suggesting that the majority of convicted murderers are wrongfully convicted? And if you are what is the basis of that premise?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#414

Post by rewqfdsa »

iamsohungry wrote: post #388
rewqfdsa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it ends up being slightly malicious or dismissive of other movements like feminism When feminiism has become a movement against truth and against half the population, what do you expect?

When that happens, I'll be malicious and dismissive toward feminism. But that hasn't happened yet. There are more feminists who are reasonable people than there are vocal crazies. Some things said by feminists: * "Men weren’t really the enemy — they were fellow victims suffering from an outmoded masculine mystique that made them feel unnecessarily inadequate when there were no bears to kill." -- Betty Friedan * "Wome…

And then you get people who promote the Duluth Model, which declares men guilty until proven innocent. No, feminism has turned into an anti-male movement. Prominent exceptions aside, feminism is the excuse the current illiberal generation is using to curtail the rights of men. "Bitch" is profane, but the word "mansplain" is apparently respectable vocabulary.

Tell me all you want that feminism isn't a harmful force in society today. That idea is not consistent with my experience. When modern feminists hear that boys are doing worse in school than they used to, they just say "good; it's about time". These days, every time I hear someone arguing against equal treatment, against free speech, against due process, and again diversity of opinion, that person is a self-proclaimed feminist.

Modern feminists really believe that today's men, especially white men, should suffer for imagined crimes of our ancestors. It's perfectly fine to have women-only conferences and events, but if we even think of a men-only club, that's backwards and sexist. Feminism is about double standards and about setting the genders against each other. The idea that feminism benefits men too is a lie.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#415

Post by vlehto »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #329

There's nothing wrong with what is being said here. Except that there are just as many "climate" issues that woman and people of color have to face, if not more. This person is cherry-picking discussions about race and gender and saying "it's horrible that climate issues are making it difficult for these white/male students from participating" but the same level of outcry doesn't exist even though in almost every oth…

>the same people are silent

I'm pretty sure that's some sort of fallacy.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#416

Post by sanderjd »

sanderjd wrote: post #374
snowwrestler wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent is on to something about the implications of the argument, although it is not how the post's author would look at it, of course. To really understand an argument, one has to start with its subject. Are we talking about viewpoints or people? What the blog post author focuses on is people: > Me: Now lets try it for politics. How many of you would say you are on the right politically, or that you are…

> We want citizens who will speak up for what they know is right, even if they know they will face trouble. I thought your comment was really good, but I don't think this conclusion is quite right. The problem is that lots of different people "know" that lots of different things are "right". In my life experience (read: I have no data on this), we don't seem to have the problem that not enough people will "speak up f…

Replying to myself, because I've found that my comment ended up supporting the original article, at least in part, which I didn't particularly like or find myself nodding along to.

I guess where I find that I agree with the author is that we could all use to do a better job of really listening to different opinions. But where the author was targeting that advice at the "victims" who shouldn't shout down their "oppressors", in my experience it is more often the case that people with brash opinions that tend to offend people are the ones who "know they are right" and are unlikely to really hear the other side.

But I suppose there is plenty of closed-mindedness, lack of charity, and stubbornness to go around!

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#417

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

ps4fanboy wrote: post #397
dragonwriter wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding committing crime and avoiding being incarcerated for crime are not the same thing. (The first may help in the second, but just as committing a crime is neither necessary nor sufficient to assure incarceration for it, avoiding committing a crime is neither necessary nor sufficient to avoid incarceration for it. It is frequently argued that it is both more necessary and less sufficient for blacks to avoid crim…

Its hard to be incarcerated for murder without someone actualy being murdered. Therefore the most effective way to avoid incarceration for murder is to stop murdering. People are not being wrongly incarcerated (wholesale) for violent crimes that dont exist, not being violent is sufficient to avoid incarceration for such crimes.

>People are not being wrongly incarcerated (wholesale) for violent crimes that dont exist, not being violent is sufficient to avoid incarceration for such crimes.

That's absurd. You're completely ignoring the face that the FBI invented completely bogus disciplines of forensic science (hair analysis, bite marks) and self-certified experts in those disciplines who then went forth and helped convict scores of people for two decades.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-fo...

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#418

Post by leroy_masochist »

enjo wrote: post #286
leroy_masochist wrote: post #276

For a while now I've thought that 4-year residential college is a dying model. Here's how I view the value proposition of college and how it is being replaced by tech: * Validation of raw talent by a third party (admissions office) --> can be done by technology today in ways impossible 10 years ago and hard to imagine 30 years ago * Socialization around other people in the top decile (or higher) of book-smarts --> ca…

If I had to choose between two candidates with the same proficiency in a testable skill set (JavaScript, GAAP accounting, laying brick, whatever else), at this point I'd probably prefer someone who spent four years working on a fishing boat, or trying to make it as a musician, or on a church mission, or hiking the PCT / CDT / AT, or in the Marines, or something else challenging, over someone who went to an elite unde…

I actually agree strongly with your point, I just think that the pursuits named above are better at teaching people how to learn than many colleges are these days.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#419

Post by [deleted] »

marknutter wrote: post #233
rm999 wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why aren't we as interested in getting, say, more men into nursing... I also don't see a lot of "Women in Pro Football" groups This is seriously your argument? That's so fatalistic: this is the way things are, so this is the way things will be. You're also arguing a very "us" vs "them" mentality, which is what makes professions gendered to begin with. >CS is intriguing to me precisely because it's such a great equal…

> This is seriously your argument? That's so fatalistic: this is the way things are, so this is the way things will be. You're also arguing a very "us" vs "them" mentality, which is what makes professions gendered to begin with. Yeah, seriously. It's my argument. Did I not sound serious enough? Are you addressing the content within my argument or the tone of my argument? I'm not being fatalistic, I'm genuinely asking…

[deleted]

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#420

Post by ps4fanboy »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #417
ps4fanboy wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to be incarcerated for murder without someone actualy being murdered. Therefore the most effective way to avoid incarceration for murder is to stop murdering. People are not being wrongly incarcerated (wholesale) for violent crimes that dont exist, not being violent is sufficient to avoid incarceration for such crimes.

>People are not being wrongly incarcerated (wholesale) for violent crimes that dont exist, not being violent is sufficient to avoid incarceration for such crimes. That's absurd. You're completely ignoring the face that the FBI invented completely bogus disciplines of forensic science (hair analysis, bite marks) and self-certified experts in those disciplines who then went forth and helped convict scores of people for…

Of all murder cases in a period of time what % of cases are effected by these issues with these types of forensic science (you arent suggesting all forensic science is bunk are you?), I never said the justice system is infallible, however are you suggesting that the majority people who are convicted of murder are innocent?
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