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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

heterodoxacademy.org

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#211

Post by wcummings »

RodericDay wrote: post #66
avn2109 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote you, but I think other people are because the article's central thesis is that this social phenomenon is at its core neither radical politics nor anti-school protests. Rather, the article claims that it's merely a new coat of paint on the same old gang bullying/identity politics/being mean to outsiders to increase one's own social status.

That's how those movements were portrayed back in the day, too.

Exactly, this isn't the first time a progressive social cause has been called "political correctness gone mad."

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#212

Post by sinxoveretothex »

kafkaesq wrote: post #100
tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Ugh. The Brendan Eich issue was about freedom of association -- in particular, the right of Mozilla employees and stakeholders not to be associated with the bigoted groups (and their hateful TV ads) Eich was supporting -- rather than freedom of speech. If you're still not clear as to the distinction, please see: https://xkcd.com/1357/

I think that the "association" in "Freedom of association" means the right to get with people (associate as in form a group).

The "association" that you speak of is a different concept: figurative association (how people compare or liken groups one to the other).

I do not think that it is right to conclude something about the one based on the other.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#213

Post by flopto »

econnors wrote: post #111

As a student at Dartmouth, I find this article to be extremely accurate and representative of the culture I've encountered amongst the protests here and (through conversations with friends) at other places across the country. As a white male, my friends and I are too intimidated by the Black Lives Matter protesters and their actions to try to initiate any sort of discussion on the matter in fear that we'll only provo…

If people are angry about X and you go up to them and try to tell them how much you like/support X, isn't that what you'd expect? To make people want to engage you in a thoughtful discussion, it's important to demonstrate humility and open-mindedness to their opinions.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#214

Post by refurb »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #201
nine_k wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While their behavior was entirely legal and protected by the First Amendment, the problem lies elsewhere. It's in the utter lack of tolerance to the views not conforming to the group's, not unlike the reaction religious extremists would display. Can't help but quote: -- The Emperor summons before him Bodhidharma and asks: “Master, I have been tolerant of innumerable gays, lesbians, bisexuals, asexuals, blacks, Hispan…

You seem to have bought into fair and balanced horseshit. There are certain views that are morally superior to others, just as there are certain hamburgers that are better than others. Taking rights away from other people loosely based on ancient superstitions (the Bible says nothing about allowing gays to marry but says a lot about how to punish them -- the only reason Eich and his ilk aren't politically promoting t…

There are certain views that are morally superior to others

Whose morals? Back in the 1800's in the South it was generally viewed as moral to have slaves. Was that right?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#215

Post by lukeschlather »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #182
nemo1618 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest failure of such people is that their own conduct serves as a terrible advertisement for the sort of worldview they promote. Look at these people: do you see happy, healthy, mindful, compassionate, self-confident, well-adjusted human beings? I don't. I see bitter, spiteful, demanding, insecure, Us-vs-Them types, perpetually searching for the next perceived slight. Are these the sort of people I'm supposed…

That's actually our biggest hope of getting rid of SJW phenomenon. The underhanded methods they use means also that as they grow, they start to turn on each other. The cancer gets cancer, and dies before it can grow too much. I think the general population will slowly realize that being evil is not the best strategy for making others better people.

The post you replied to described "bitter, spiteful, demanding, insecure, Us-vs-Them types." I think there are people in various leftist movements that can fairly be described in that way. But I also think it's a good description for anyone who describes a desire for social justice as a cancer.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#216

Post by woah »

kafkaesq wrote: post #100
tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Ugh. The Brendan Eich issue was about freedom of association -- in particular, the right of Mozilla employees and stakeholders not to be associated with the bigoted groups (and their hateful TV ads) Eich was supporting -- rather than freedom of speech. If you're still not clear as to the distinction, please see: https://xkcd.com/1357/

What a ridiculous line of reasoning. If the ceo at my company likes to tango and donates to a tango club, it doesn't mean that I like to tango.

I'm absolutely supportive of gay marriage, but the people pillorying Eich find it necessary to contort their logic in the strangest ways.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#217

Post by douche »

mrtron wrote: post #61
douche wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently. There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things ). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This…

This might be the first time I have seen someone from an Ivy league college not mention the name (intentionally). Why not just say X/Y/Z?

It's not something I like to trumpet out. I dealt with enough toolbags at said institution of higher learning who tended to have little personality beyond exclaiming how they got a 2400 on the SAT, that they were the valedictorian of their class, how hard corporate recruiting was, and how sick it was that they got that internship at McKinsey, or Bridgewater.

Also white-trash Yankee hillbillies are rare enough at these sorts of places that I might as well give up any pretenses of online anonymity if I said specifically which one it was.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#218

Post by xenihn »

Retra wrote: post #203
xenihn wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't care about clothing styles, but if you dress very strangely, I'll judge you just the same. That is a direct contradiction. You acknowledge as much right after. What's even the point of writing this and posting it? >And right now, you are not focussing on technology, but on gender issues. So you're a hypocrite. You care enough about gender to voice an opinion, but only to lash out at others who dare to have a…

>That is a direct contradiction. You acknowledge as much right after. What's even the point of writing this and posting it? Umm... to SHOW that it's a contradiction. To demonstrate the absurdity of making statements that betray one's behavior. It's easier to know how dumb you're being if you see someone else doing it. Let me rephrase this for you. I don't care about anime. When someone throws an anime conference, I d…

>I don't care about anime. When someone throws an anime conference, I don't care. I won't be going. What I'm not going to do is jump on the internet and start saying "I have a problem with anime conferences!"

Apples and oranges, you're allowed to go to anime conferences.

This is literally what you think:

"You're opposed to gender-exclusive conferences, and you think that the prioritization of one gender over another is counter-intuitive in regards to attaining gender equality, that means that you object to women in tech".

There is something horribly wrong with your way of thinking if that is your interpretation.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#219

Post by rm999 »

marknutter wrote: post #169
coreyp_1 wrote: post #137

This directly relates to us in tech. Specifically, there is a huge push to reach out to women and girls in CS. I am not opposed to females in CS at all. I will encourage males and females alike to pursue it, because I see CS as the great equalizer; the only thing that matters is what you produce. What I can't stand are these "Women in technology" conferences and workshops to "close the (gender) gap". Why? Because if…

I agree completely, and am publicly willing to do so because I'm not willing to live in a future where I can't publicly disagree with someone. Why is it technology, specifically, that needs to be equalized? Because it's currently trendy? Because there's a lot of money in it? Is money all that matters? Why aren't we as interested in getting, say, more men into nursing, considering there a lot of underemployed, undered…

>Why aren't we as interested in getting, say, more men into nursing... I also don't see a lot of "Women in Pro Football" groups

This is seriously your argument? That's so fatalistic: this is the way things are, so this is the way things will be. You're also arguing a very "us" vs "them" mentality, which is what makes professions gendered to begin with.

>CS is intriguing to me precisely because it's such a great equalizer

You're ignoring the social aspect. Women are often discouraged from tech early on, which makes the profession more male-dominated, which makes women feel less comfortable, etc.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#220

Post by flopto »

dragonwriter wrote: post #198
lukeschlather wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poor whites are not a privileged class. I just wanted to respond to this because (like a lot of these ideas) I think they represent a response to a strawman. The core point of the discussion of privilege acknowledges that all people have privileges. The question then is defining what they are and how useful they are. When talking about white privilege, the point is that poor whites are better off than poor blacks,…

> When talking about white privilege, the point is that poor whites are better off than poor blacks, just by virtue of being white. Its not clear to me that that that's true; there is complicated intersectionality at play. Poor whites are more likely to have social networks and other advantages that provide things useful to getting out of poverty, and may -- due to racism and the racially unequal distribution of weal…

Poor blacks, unlike poor whites, are subject to mass incarceration.

Edit: this is technically incorrect, see dragonwriter below.

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