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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#141

Post by jegutman »

sremani wrote: post #114
jegutman wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority." It's interestingly how strong your opinion is when it could be easily improved upon by just reading wikipedia[3]. Here are states that actually passed SSM by popular referendum: * Maine [1] * Washington State[2] * Maryland [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_Question_1,_2012 [2] https://en.wikipedia.o…

You are correct. In my argument I was pointing out about how things were at the time of Prop 8, which I think is around 2008. The gay marriage debate got much needed momentum in 2012. In 2008 even Barack Obama was not for Gay Marriage.

Yea, sorry for the snark, comes naturally. I also think that if Eich had the same change of heart he would still have been booted. I really think the people protesting him didn't have as much influence as it seemed. Btw, Obama was against Prop 8 in 2008 for what it's worth[1].

[1] http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Obama-opposes-proposed-ba...

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#142

Post by rewqfdsa »

rmxt wrote: post #135
rewqfdsa wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those subreddits are "less than agreeable" because they advocate outlandish responses Do they? What "outlandish responses" might those be? You're smearing by implication. What specifically do you find so "outlandish"? As far as I can tell, people making claims like yours think that creating a consistent set of rules for all, promoting free expression of all views, and countering group libel are thoughtcrimes. What'…

I don't have to do much "smearing by implication" when the upvoted comments speak for themselves. I think there are people that do this sort of "bullying" and unproductive rabble-rousing on both sides of the debate. I personally agree with the principles of "a consistent set of rules for all, etc.," but I don't think that the road to productive debate begins with including "hate," "sucks", "fuck them", etc., as a mea…

Is that really the best you can do?

> Fucking demolished

Perfectly appropriate informal language that means "You won the argument convincingly"

> It's sad that a bunch of raving lunatic SJWs can have this effect. Useless self-absorbed maniacs with no purpose in life but to pester those that have.

Many SJWs are, in fact, saving lunatics who have no purpose in life but to heckle and protest everything

> Fuck that piece of shit

Very common language when talking about public figures --- and I'd be willing to bet you used similar language about Bush, or Cameron, or Harper, or anyone else on the wrong side.

You're demonstrating exactly the kind of militarized hypersensitivity and craven hypocrisy that's turned colleges (and increasingly, workplaces) into zones for political indoctrination.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#143

Post by roymurdock »

gohrt wrote: post #122
roymurdock wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual you are free to say whatever you please. As the CEO of a large organization, you are not. You are the face and voice of an organization. You speak for its employees and you are accountable to its shareholders. You are held to a higher standard and your every word/action is scrutinized. If your shareholders are afraid that your speech/actions will hurt the bottom line of the company, you will be remov…

Yes, we know. Profit != Justice

What exactly is your argument?

If you have strong views, you can express them in private, or you can head an organization that is dedicated to/aligned with those views.

Freedom to say whatever you want, whenever is not justice either.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#144

Post by bratsche »

kelukelugames wrote: post #40
jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Which ideas do they want to censor? Edit: I'm looking for specific examples. Otherwise we are just feigning outrage. I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

> I had an ex co-worker who confided in me that he doesn't like gay people. I was very happy that he couldn't say that in public.

He can still talk about it when he's around other like-minded people though. By not being able to say it in public, isn't he basically ensuring that he'll never have a conversation with someone with a dissenting opinion and never be forced to think through it? These things just reinforce his attitude probably.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#145

Post by forgottenpass »

richard_mcp wrote: post #76
derptron wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff" What?

Normally if I read an article about the men's right movement, it ends up being slightly malicious or dismissive of other movements like feminism. I don't disagree with a lot of their points, but there often seems to be a thread of misogyny just under the surface which makes me less likely to take them seriously.

When disagreeing with a particular popular liberal thought is so taboo, the people who want to vocalize their dissent will find strange bedfellows. In this case the unabashedly misogynistic.

Without carefully measured responses, the larger moment will steamroll the dissent with guilt by association (the last many years) until it becomes unavoidable (the last year-ish?) when the ideas are presented in non-hitpeices by The Atlantic and Vox.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#146

Post by DavidWoof »

Balgair wrote: post #89
douche wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently. There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things ). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This…

My wife went to one of the 7 sisters. She said 'This happens every 3-5 years with regularity. Just wait for the cocaine to run out. Things will quiet down after that'

This is basically true. A lot of what's going on is a result only of the new ubiquity of recording devices.

After all, the "Yale problem" refers mainly to a short confrontation where an immature student yelled at an administrator over something stupid. That's never been exactly unheard of at any college, the only difference is that it got captured on video and spread around the country.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#149

Post by cozuya »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #83
twoodfin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's a free country for everybody. But, IMHO, the threshold for taking arguments outside the political arena and into the realm of boycotts and demands for resignations should be a lot higher than it seems to be today. Otherwise vibrant, productive arguments don't happen, since everyone's concentrating on bankrupting the other side of money, "platforms", or legitimacy.

This is the reason I keep two HN accounts - I fear that any political comments I make here could jeopardize my professional life (about which I contribute fairly often). Online, that's a fairly easy thing to manage. In real life, it means I really have to walk on eggshells a lot, and I seldom participate in voicing my opinions (or supporting certain causes) in which I'd otherwise participate, solely out of fear. In m…

I view HN as a forum for professionals so I don't make comments that could negatively impact my professional life here. In that way I think self censure is fine. If you don't agree with my assessment thats fine as well of course.

Of course most of the sparse comments I make here are dumb jokes...

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#150

Post by lsaferite »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #54
sremani wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's polit…

The "PC vocal minority" were Mozilla's own employees and contributors. You can say what you like about the California electorate as a whole but to be against gay marriage in San Francisco is to be an asshole. Eich should have known he was endangering Mozilla's ability to attract and retain talent and outside contributions.

I guess that's something I don't grok. How are his personal beliefs some reason to not work at Mozilla? He is not Mozilla. Do you refuse to work for companies where someone has differing opinions? You must not work then. Now, if he was using his position to proselytize to his fellow Mozilla employees, then I could see the point. But he wasn't.
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