The Yale Problem Begins in High School • Hacker News Board

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#21

Post by kod » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:46 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #4

Nickersf wrote: post #2

Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers has done some interesting research, and given many eye opening talks regarding this matter. Reading this article made my morning. It's time we step back and reevaluate the way we are raising the youth. This war on boys is wrong, and could have disastrous effects on our society in the future.

Agreed. It is baffling to me that nobody seems to seriously consider that this war on men/boys is what creates this weird and uncomfortable social dynamic. Masculinity is not something to be feared or ashamed of, teaching that is what creates dysfunctional men.

No, social norms that

  - you're not allowed to show emotion (unless it's anger)
  - you must get all of your emotional needs met through first your mother, and then your girlfriend / wife

are what creates dysfunctional men.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#22

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #10

wcummings wrote: post #7

I don't think college students being involved in radical politics and protests against their school is a new trend.

But colleges buying into their craziness and lunacy is.

> But colleges buying into their craziness and lunacy is.

No, its not. On either left-wing or right-wing causes.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#23

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

rspeer wrote: post #19

tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Money is not speech, it's money. People were angry at Eich because he spent money opposing a cause they supported. Brandon Eich is not an example of anything this article is about. It's much more straightforward: if you do things people don't like, those people won't like you.

[deleted]

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#24

Post by DrJokepu » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:52 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #14

tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

This is a frequently repeated argument and I find it less and less convincing. It is true that America's constitution only guarantees the congress will not abridge the freedom of speech. However, an argument could be made that in a free society there's a fundamental right to have a dissenting opinion or voice; a right that is not codified by the constitution because it's simply irrelevant to a constitution. It seems to me that it's up to all of us to tolerate non-extreme dissenting voices, even if we disagree with them.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#25

Post by lumberjack » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:53 PM UTC

These people act this way because they are elitist. They think they know what should be better than anyone else and therefore there is no need for debate or for rights like free speech.

I find that quite ironic because presumably, these people subscribe to left leaning ideologies. But maybe there isn't so much of a contradiction. They are simply more elitist than they are anything else.

They don't really stand for equality because they do not possess the humbleness to bring themselves to the level of the common person. They believe themselves to be intellectually and morally superior to the common Joe. And yet they want to dupe the common Joe into thinking that they will safeguard his interests while at the same time thinking so poorly of him!

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#26

Post by sremani » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

rspeer wrote: post #19

tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

Money is not speech, it's money. People were angry at Eich because he spent money opposing a cause they supported. Brandon Eich is not an example of anything this article is about. It's much more straightforward: if you do things people don't like, those people won't like you.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's political belief were not fringe or extremist and more alignment to the times, is the case for NOT bullying him out of his Executive Office in Mozilla. For a organization that wants to stand up against Big Bad Governments and Corporations, Mozilla capitulated to a PC vocal minority. This has emboldened "Crybullies" of all shapes and forms including the ones in Yale.

note:I am for Gay Marriage but I am against bullying people who are not for it.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#27

Post by douche » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:55 PM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently.

There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This vocal, seemingly-permanently-aggrieved small subset of the population seemed to stir up almost all of the controversy, and seemed hell-bent on ruining everybody else's good time at every opportunity. Increasingly, they seem to be succeeding; I'm glad I graduated when I did.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#28

Post by twoodfin » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:57 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #14

tosseraccount wrote: post #13

Look how Silicon Valley folks treated Brandon Eich when he made a donation to the majority side in a California proposition. It's not just academia where you can't speak freely.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

Sure, it's a free country for everybody.

But, IMHO, the threshold for taking arguments outside the political arena and into the realm of boycotts and demands for resignations should be a lot higher than it seems to be today. Otherwise vibrant, productive arguments don't happen, since everyone's concentrating on bankrupting the other side of money, "platforms", or legitimacy.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#29

Post by WaxProlix » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #17

zekkius wrote: post #11

I find the underlying premise of this article and the claim that there is a "war on boys" absurd. It's a old argument from the same old set of people who have the same old intolerant (and dying) paradigm. Not sure why it is on HN at all as the content has nothing to do with tech...

Did you read the article? It answers your question and demonstrates that it is not a fallacy.

I read the article but don't see exactly that myself (not OP) - would you be willing to pick out a few salient parts?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#30

Post by ajkjk » Wed, Nov 25, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

wcummings wrote: post #7

I don't think college students being involved in radical politics and protests against their school is a new trend.

I did downvote you, because this isn't at all what the article was about. Dismissiveness is annoying anyway, but it's especially useless when you completely miss the subject.