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The Yale Problem Begins in High School

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Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#61

Post by mrtron »

douche wrote: post #27
jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently. There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things ). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This…

This might be the first time I have seen someone from an Ivy league college not mention the name (intentionally). Why not just say X/Y/Z?

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#62

Post by xtian »

twoodfin wrote: post #28
dragonwriter wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that other people are free to speak against you does not mean that you can't speak freely. Free speech does not mean freedom from having your speech acts criticized (quite the opposite; it includes freedom of others to criticize your speech acts.) And, yes, it means that your speech acts may affect your ability to hold a job where you are one of the major public faces of an organization (such as its CEO) and…

Sure, it's a free country for everybody. But, IMHO, the threshold for taking arguments outside the political arena and into the realm of boycotts and demands for resignations should be a lot higher than it seems to be today. Otherwise vibrant, productive arguments don't happen, since everyone's concentrating on bankrupting the other side of money, "platforms", or legitimacy.

The more the political arena is dominated by money and marketing, the more people will use that language to make their voices heard.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#63

Post by bmelton »

richard_mcp wrote: post #45

I was originally going to lump this article in with other "men's rights movement" stuff until I saw the author was Jonathan Haidt. I had the honor to take Psyc 101 with Prof. Haidt years ago at the University of Virginia. He was a wonderful teacher who expected the best out of his students. He struck me as a very intelligent man who had put a lot of thought into both what he taught as well as his opinions. When he br…

It is anecdotal, but as someone who disagrees with Haidt on most things political, his TED talks and books are, to my ears, spot on, and comprised of very rigorous science, which I previous did not think possible in psych fields.

I confess that I liked the article before I noticed the author, though I honestly kept expecting it to devolve into some kind of MRA tirade which would likely have lost me, but after finishing the article and having found no such vitriol, I scrolled up and saw that it was Haidt, which I wish I'd seen earlier as it might have assuaged the tension I felt.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#64

Post by [deleted] »

sremani wrote: post #26
rspeer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is not speech, it's money. People were angry at Eich because he spent money opposing a cause they supported. Brandon Eich is not an example of anything this article is about. It's much more straightforward: if you do things people don't like, those people won't like you.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's polit…

[deleted]

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#65

Post by [deleted] »

lexcorvus wrote: post #39
nonsenselies wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even more dishonest to take all of the opinions held by individuals of some ill-defined cohort, and pretend that any inconsistencies between different individuals means that all members of the group are irrational and should be ignored.

ill-defined cohort The group I mentioned is precisely defined, and 100% opt-in—it's the set of all people who say "I'm only intolerant of intolerance." all members of the group are irrational and should be ignored Are you accusing me of thinking that? Because I didn't say that, and I don't think that. Reread my comment: saying "you'll likely be met with vitriol" implies that the converse—that you won't be met with vi…

[deleted]

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#66

Post by RodericDay »

avn2109 wrote: post #15
wcummings wrote: post #7

I don't think college students being involved in radical politics and protests against their school is a new trend.

I didn't downvote you, but I think other people are because the article's central thesis is that this social phenomenon is at its core neither radical politics nor anti-school protests. Rather, the article claims that it's merely a new coat of paint on the same old gang bullying/identity politics/being mean to outsiders to increase one's own social status.

That's how those movements were portrayed back in the day, too.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#67

Post by MollyR »

douche wrote: post #27
jseliger wrote: post #12

I've taught at two colleges and based on my (purely) anecdotal experiences and attention to the climate, I'd say that the number of students and faculty interested in stifling or censoring ideas is small but also very, very noisy. They also have no sense of humor and college administrators as a group have no sense of humor or perspective, and they're chronically worried about accusations of indifference or insensitiv…

Yup, that parallels my experience pretty closely, as an undergraduate at an Ivy League college that was in the news recently. There might have been about a hundred people on campus that were actively interested in protesting things (what things?, all the things ). For the most part, everybody else is there to go to class, learn, do their own thing, and drink too much beer on the weekends/Wednesdays/Mondays, etc. This…

Same here. Except replace the drinking with lab research and homework. I will admit it left a extremely strong negative impression of certain groups methodologies.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#68

Post by ta0o0o0 »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #54
sremani wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brandon Eich episode speaks volumes, esp. since he was at the winning side of the Popular Vote. Tinder did not walk away for CA after Prop 8 was won. I really do not know a single state including CA and OR, where gay marriage actually garnered Popular majority. Now the debate about whether something like that should be up for Vote is different and one I have no much domain knowledge. The fact was Brandon Eich's polit…

The "PC vocal minority" were Mozilla's own employees and contributors. You can say what you like about the California electorate as a whole but to be against gay marriage in San Francisco is to be an asshole. Eich should have known he was endangering Mozilla's ability to attract and retain talent and outside contributions.

Let's not rewrite history:

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/04/05/faq-on-ceo-resignat...

Q: Was Brendan Eich forced out by employee pressure?

A: No. Mozilla employees expressed a wide range of views on Brendan’s appointment as CEO: the majority of them positive and in support of his leadership, or expressing disappointment in Brendan’s support of Proposition 8 but that they nonetheless felt he would be a good leader for Mozilla. A small number (fewer than 10) called for his resignation, none of whom reported to Brendan directly. However media coverage focused disproportionately on the small number of negative comments — largely ignoring the wide range of reactions across the Mozilla community.

Mozilla’s culture of openness extends to encouraging our staff and community to be candid about their views on Mozilla’s direction, including during and after Brendan’s appointment as CEO. We’re proud of that openness and how it distinguishes Mozilla from most organizations.

Re: The Yale Problem Begins in High School

#70

Post by Cthulhu_ »

lumberjack wrote: post #25

These people act this way because they are elitist. They think they know what should be better than anyone else and therefore there is no need for debate or for rights like free speech. I find that quite ironic because presumably, these people subscribe to left leaning ideologies. But maybe there isn't so much of a contradiction. They are simply more elitist than they are anything else. They don't really stand for eq…

> these people subscribe to left leaning ideologies.

Might as well call them extreme-left, which is just as bad as extreme-right and the extreme ideologies that come with it. The left / right spectrum aren't polar opposites either, but it tends to be horseshoe-shaped, so you'll find some ideas that are dangerously close to those on the other side (#KillAll(White)Men is literally calling for ethnic / gender purging. Somehow it's not causing as much as an outrage as #KillAllJews would).

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