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Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

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Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#31

Post by bmelton »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #29
bmelton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly. Here are my claims, and links to affirmations. * He jacked the prices up I don't think I need a source for that one. * After getting it on a co-pay schedule Can't find a handy, direct citation, but it's pretty easy to find in other articles - it was shifted to certain pharmacies and added to copay schedules. * they're happy to give Daraprim away for free. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/d…

You haven't shown any light here; only given a description of events so far. >CTRL+F "free to anyone" Complete the context for, " who can't afford it". Do you know where I can find Shkreli's rationing guidelines?

I'm mobile, so apologies in advance for the lack of citation, but as I recall from his most recent open letter, it's free to incomes up to 500% of the poverty line and the uninsured.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#32

Post by scientes »

Nothing in this article mentions that National Institutes of Health public-sector funding does all the work in general research before they give a patent to the private sector so that the public pays twice.

RT on US public research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN5_j7Yq9WA

(Note I think public funding for science is a good thing, unlike this attack piece by RT, but that is not the point.)

Chomsky also talks about how state-sector created the transistor for example at AT&T Bell Labs.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#33

Post by Jtsummers »

bmelton wrote: post #28
jsprogrammer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions What light? Can you point to it?

Certainly. Here are my claims, and links to affirmations. * He jacked the prices up I don't think I need a source for that one. * After getting it on a co-pay schedule Can't find a handy, direct citation, but it's pretty easy to find in other articles - it was shifted to certain pharmacies and added to copay schedules. * they're happy to give Daraprim away for free. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/09/d…

It seems the offer of free drugs was a decision made to mitigate the negative PR, not before. At least per all the references I can find. Do you have anything that points to their offering the drug for free (or steeply discounted) that can be dated (article, letter, or at least a claim in a later article or letter) to before the price hike?

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#34

Post by abalashov »

drcode wrote: post #20
FireBeyond wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the balance beyond the co-pay is coming from, though? Magical wish-granting insurance fairies? Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but your argument, as stated by Shkreli himself, seems to think that people believe that the hundreds (or more) dollars a month they pay in insurance premiums has absolutely nothing to do with this. "But your copay will only be $20 and you won't pay a cent more!" No, you (or…

Well, usually insurance companies get some sort of discount on full prices... but the heft of your argument remains valid.

Yes, but probably not a 98% discount.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#35

Post by abalashov »

Retric wrote: post #21
programmarchy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not considering the long term effects. The extra cost placed on the insurance company will get passed on to the consumer in the form of increased premiums. He's just using the fascist, anti-competitive, anti-consumer U.S. insurance economic model to his advantage. It's scum heaped upon scum.

A dirty secret of the insurance industry is they don't actually want to lower prices. They act like cost plus defense contractors and are happy to maximize any systemic costs that are spread around the industry.

This. And they see plenty of private lucre for it.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#36

Post by nradov »

bigchewy wrote: post #4
themartorana wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely what will happen (see wind, solar energy or anything that has ever caused market shifts) - in fact, it's pretty incredible that the article doesn't acknowledge this. If the argument was about whether or not prices would drop fast enough, that would have been cogent.

you may not be familiar with how healthcare works. There is, generally, almost no price pressure. In fact, consumers of healthcare, because they aren't paying for it, often equate higher price with higher quality so I wouldn't bet on the prices going down

This is changing. In the USA, the increased prevalence of high-deductible health insurance plans tied to HSAs gives consumers a direct incentive to shop around. Of course that only goes so far. Patients with really serious problems tend to hit their out-of-pocket maximum quickly, at which point they no longer feel the price pressure.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#37

Post by nradov »

Retric wrote: post #21
programmarchy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not considering the long term effects. The extra cost placed on the insurance company will get passed on to the consumer in the form of increased premiums. He's just using the fascist, anti-competitive, anti-consumer U.S. insurance economic model to his advantage. It's scum heaped upon scum.

A dirty secret of the insurance industry is they don't actually want to lower prices. They act like cost plus defense contractors and are happy to maximize any systemic costs that are spread around the industry.

This isn't really true anymore. The large medical "insurance" companies are increasingly getting out of the insurance business and shifting the risk to employers (self insured plans), patients (high-deductible health plans, HSAs), and providers (ACOs). So the payers don't actually work on a cost-plus basis. They're actually trying to drive down systemic prices as that would bring in more customers and higher volumes for their claims administration businesses.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#38

Post by duaneb »

notahacker wrote: post #17
ianferrel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market for computers is obvious now because there is a market for computers. The market for computers 40 years ago was far from obvious. Even 25 years ago, most people weren't really sure if this whole internet thing was going to amount to much. 15 years ago, people scoffed at the idea that the future of the internet was mobile phones. Predictions are hard. Especially about the future.

I'd have thought the market for gene therapy was blindingly obvious compared with the market for computers 40 years ago: theoretical gene therapies being easier to conceive and more fundamental to human quality and length of life than theoretical everyday uses for calculation devices.

I'm pretty happy with my ~50 year life span. I wouldn't spend a dime on gene therapy ever.
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