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Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 38 posts

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely what will happen (see wind, solar energy or anything that has ever caused market shifts) - in fact, it's pretty incredible that the article doesn't acknowledge this. If the argument was about whether or not prices would drop fast enough, that would have been cogent.

The market for computers seems obvious. The market for gene therapy is less obvious.

If gene therapy can keep people from dying, I'm pretty sure there will be a market.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#12
Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground.

Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price.

For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they've stated (and has been corroborated) that they're happy to give Daraprim away for free.

At the end of the day, the cost of the drug to the insured doesn't really go up by a whole lot, and the cost of the drug to the uninsured (but not 1 percenter) has actually gotten cheaper. In the meantime, Shkreli will be able to funnel Daraprim profits into research for the drug to keep it from becoming irrelevant, as it currently will be if left alone because the disease that it prevents supposedly evolves, and if left alone, would eventually slide from 70% effective to 60%, to 50%, etc.

Meanwhile, for anybody to which that isn't an acceptable solution, these guys have released an alternative for $1 a pill. It may set back drug-parasitic relations in the process, but it's there, it's cheap, and people won't be dying as a result of the price hike.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/10/23/news/companies/imprimis-dara...

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#13
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you may not be familiar with how healthcare works. There is, generally, almost no price pressure. In fact, consumers of healthcare, because they aren't paying for it, often equate higher price with higher quality so I wouldn't bet on the prices going down

but with medical tourism becoming more reliable and trusted, as well as companies hq'd in countries unencumbered by our insistence on patents for biology, it's likely this is where another country takes the "top" spot from the US. China, Brazil, and India all seems like good potentials.

Medical tourism doesn't work for chronic disease requiring recurring visits/treatments... unless you move there.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#14
post #12

Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground. Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price. For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they…

You're not considering the long term effects.

The extra cost placed on the insurance company will get passed on to the consumer in the form of increased premiums.

He's just using the fascist, anti-competitive, anti-consumer U.S. insurance economic model to his advantage. It's scum heaped upon scum.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#15
post #12

Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground. Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price. For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they…

>Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions

What light? Can you point to it?

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#16
post #12

Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground. Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price. For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they…

Where do you think the balance beyond the co-pay is coming from, though? Magical wish-granting insurance fairies?

Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but your argument, as stated by Shkreli himself, seems to think that people believe that the hundreds (or more) dollars a month they pay in insurance premiums has absolutely nothing to do with this. "But your copay will only be $20 and you won't pay a cent more!"

No, you (or your employer, who could otherwise be paying you that money) will be paying -every last cent- of the price rise. Just largely as an amortized monthly premium, not an out-of-pocket co-pay at the time you pick up your script.

Shkreli seems to believe that people would fall for his argument that somehow the balance of the cost of the drug would be paid by ... I don't know who, exactly, hence those magical fairies ... and not by us.

And in a lot of cases, he's right.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market for computers seems obvious. The market for gene therapy is less obvious.

The market for computers is obvious now because there is a market for computers. The market for computers 40 years ago was far from obvious. Even 25 years ago, most people weren't really sure if this whole internet thing was going to amount to much. 15 years ago, people scoffed at the idea that the future of the internet was mobile phones. Predictions are hard. Especially about the future.

I'd have thought the market for gene therapy was blindingly obvious compared with the market for computers 40 years ago: theoretical gene therapies being easier to conceive and more fundamental to human quality and length of life than theoretical everyday uses for calculation devices.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#18
post #12

Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground. Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price. For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they…

What about the many Americans who have HDHP policies and pay everything through their health savings account? Until they hit their $6k deductible, they pay full price.

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market for computers is obvious now because there is a market for computers. The market for computers 40 years ago was far from obvious. Even 25 years ago, most people weren't really sure if this whole internet thing was going to amount to much. 15 years ago, people scoffed at the idea that the future of the internet was mobile phones. Predictions are hard. Especially about the future.

I'd have thought the market for gene therapy was blindingly obvious compared with the market for computers 40 years ago: theoretical gene therapies being easier to conceive and more fundamental to human quality and length of life than theoretical everyday uses for calculation devices.

Point mutation diseases impact a relatively small portion of the population. They are trivially addressable if you have a gene therapy that is able to work on arbitrary adult tissue, but it's not that huge a market. I think the largest win is sickle cell anemia, after that cystic fibrosis.

Some way of treating obesity with gene therapy would be a blockbuster financially, but biologically we don't really have that worked out so much.

(research is ongoing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle-cell_disease#Gene_thera... )

Re: Pharma's Bizarre Pricing Shrug

#20
post #12

Having "seen the light" on Shkreli's actions, I can't help but wonder whether or not I'm missing something or if people are just intent on driving a false narrative into the ground. Yes, he jacked the prices up, but only after getting it on a co-pay schedule, which means that like most drugs, you'll pay your insurance co-pay for it, but not the sticker price. For those without insurance, or who cannot afford it, they…

Where do you think the balance beyond the co-pay is coming from, though? Magical wish-granting insurance fairies? Sorry for the sarcastic tone, but your argument, as stated by Shkreli himself, seems to think that people believe that the hundreds (or more) dollars a month they pay in insurance premiums has absolutely nothing to do with this. "But your copay will only be $20 and you won't pay a cent more!" No, you (or…

Well, usually insurance companies get some sort of discount on full prices... but the heft of your argument remains valid.
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