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Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#61

Post by DominikR »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Yes I agree, the Iranians are on a different level regarding education, academia and culture.

They will eventually transform into a relatively free society if we don't interfere.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#62

Post by dragontamer »

amalag wrote: post #47
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Amazing how one theocracy, Saudi Arabia, is ok, but the other theocracy, Iran, is bad.

Not really. The US shot a missile at Iranian Airliner (killing all civilians on board) and coup'd Iran's Democracy in the 1960s.

Iran held US personnel as hostages for a year and imprisons our visitors. They are also sworn enemies to US Allies like Israel.

Iran is "bad" because they are our enemy. And they see the US as "bad" because we've been their enemy in the past.

There is absolutely nothing strange about the hate-filled relationship between Iran and the US. It is simple politics and history.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#63

Post by raverbashing »

jon-wood wrote: post #46
raverbashing wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, of course not We just have "Sharia Law" areas in the UK, honour killings in Canada, people getting shot in France and elsewhere because of drawings, etc And if someone disagrees I'd like to hear your opinion.

We do not have Sharia Law areas in the UK. I have no idea where that story came from, but its not based on fact. Particularly amusing was the Fox News coverage of areas of Birmingham where apparently white people can't go - my white friends who've lived there for decades would like to dispute that.

Yes, but I think the Fox News thing was with Paris

However: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/3tkbpf/man_assaulted_...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#64

Post by 0xFFC »

she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

As Iranian (I am commenting from Tehran) I completely approve your point of view.I even explained in long comment in this post(you can find it in bottom).Iranian regime nightmare is liberal people( because they are the most effective opposition to current regime, all of other opposition's dismantled by regime very easily they don't even exist in society).

you know why? Because they are only threat to nature of this unbeatable regime(which have money manpower and religion).but west politicians keep ignoring this fact.Iran society is way ahead of its regime.Maybe far better than turkey in term of progressiveness And regime knows perfectly. Not Isis.not USA.not Israel.non of them is serious threat for them in long term.but a huge young population with secular believes is THE most threat for regime nature.people who use internet and spend time behind porn sites and don't give fuck about Islam is the most threat (and lose) for Iran regime.

You want change middle east . change their fucking -stupid- culture with internet, with porn.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#65

Post by lambdasquirrel »

amalag wrote: post #47
she_moves_on wrote: post #40

One frustrating thing that the author gets wrong is labelling Iran the "Gray Daesh." Iran has geopolitical conflict with the West, but it's a false equivalent of Saudi Arabia. Iran is a theocracy trying to control a population that growingly wants to be secular. Women in Iran go to university at higher rates than men, can drive, hold office, and vote. Life in Iran for a women is not perfect but is heaven compared to…

Amazing how one theocracy, Saudi Arabia, is ok, but the other theocracy, Iran, is bad.

Singapore is one republic, and Sweden is another. They could hardly be more different. Not all {governments-of-one-type} are the same.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#66

Post by castis »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #37
Animats wrote: post #12

The author has a point. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money. It's even more insular than it used to be. Saudis used to send their kids to the US to go to college, with Government funding. Now Saudi Arabia has enough educational institutions that they don't do that. Years ago, I met a Saudi girl finishing Stanford who mentioned…

>That route meant a long drive through the boring part of the US. The US southwest is the boring part? You don't get those desert views anywhere else. Virtual drive: http://www.brianfolts.com/driver/#origin=stanford&destinatio...

Yeah, but western texas to louisiana sure does sound awful.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#67

Post by rhino369 »

Animats wrote: post #12

The author has a point. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money. It's even more insular than it used to be. Saudis used to send their kids to the US to go to college, with Government funding. Now Saudi Arabia has enough educational institutions that they don't do that. Years ago, I met a Saudi girl finishing Stanford who mentioned…

The Saudi's you meet in the America or the west are the rich aristocracy. For the most part, these people aren't extremists. And that's why the West has a hard time dealing with the problem. The people who ostensibly rule the Kingdom aren't salafists.

But the actual people in the Saudi Arabia, the commoner, is very fundamentalist.

It's a dysfunctional country propped up with a deal with the devil. The fundamentalists get most of what they want, while the royal family keeps their money and their land.

It's not an easy fix. If the world turned on the royal family, they'd fall from power and be immediately replaced by fundamentalists. Fundies now backed with the worlds largest supply of oil.

Also, the fundamentalist cancer they spread is now too far gone. Even if Saudi's went back to total poverty like they were in 100 years ago, the roots of radicalization are already in other countries.

Moderate Islam needs an organized response, but there has been none.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#68

Post by jqm »

vinceguidry wrote: post #43
jqm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the conditions that beget such practices are a religion? Then what do we do?

Do Muslims in the West practice female genital mutilation? I was unaware.

I'm not an expert on the subject, but according to Wikipedia... yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation#Dist...

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#69

Post by nickbauman »

Animats wrote: post #12

The author has a point. Most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a dysfunctional country propped up by oil money. It's even more insular than it used to be. Saudis used to send their kids to the US to go to college, with Government funding. Now Saudi Arabia has enough educational institutions that they don't do that. Years ago, I met a Saudi girl finishing Stanford who mentioned…

As someone pointed out to me earlier this week here on HN, Seymour Hersh's article on the Bin Ladin assassination, the real story of Al Qe'da is that the Saudis funded it tacitly. And as a result Saudi government is partially responsible for 9/11.

The sooner we figure out how to make petroleum irrelevant, the sooner places like Saudi lose their influence. Gas == War.

Re: Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

#70

Post by vox_mollis »

vinceguidry wrote: post #43
jqm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the conditions that beget such practices are a religion? Then what do we do?

Do Muslims in the West practice female genital mutilation? I was unaware.

Muslims in the West are bound by Western jurisprudence.

If Muslims in the West got the legal system they* sought (polls indicate the majority support lawful recognition and enforcement of sharia law), it's a good bet that they* would start.

* = note, I know I am generalizing millions of people here, and a sizable proportion of the Muslim population is not applicable here.

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