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Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

blog.coinbase.com

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Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#91

Post by krapp »

flatline wrote: post #35
conception wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to hold dollars to spend dollars, is the only thing I can think of.

Coinbase holds the dollars for you. It's arguable to what extent bitcoin even factors in here after your initial deposit, since everything is under the control of Coinbase. You are effectively holding a note called "Coinbase bitcoin" that fluctuates in value compared to the dollar, and you get a spot exchange rate when you spend. This is not the way bitcoin was meant to be held and spent.

>This is not the way bitcoin was meant to be held and spent.

That seems like a meaningless assertion to make about an unregulated currency. If the free market optimizes for regulated intermediaries, that's perfectly valid.

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#92

Post by eric_h »

tobias2014 wrote: post #80
eric_h wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't help but notice that NY is not in that list. Oh well.

Maybe it is because of the BitLicense? See http://cointelegraph.com/news/115114/localbitcoins-stops-ser... for example.

Yeah - New York regulatory rules are rather strict - our company (based in New York) briefly had and then lost the ability to use bitcoin on our site due to said regulations. (Or rather, the company we were working with withdrew their support for us).

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#93

Post by steven2012 »

wdewind wrote: post #53
trevelyan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we can quash the notion that financial privacy is "bad". Anyone who deals with international finance knows that KYC compliance is a joke and the required submission of sensitive personal documents to third-party companies is a major contributor to identity theft and fraud. Indeed, identity fraud is in many ways a product of policies that force companies to collect this data. Nor is there any sensible moral ar…

I don't deal with international finance but I do deal with payments within the US and I have to say I really disagree with you on KYC. Our KYC process absolutely prevents fraud from happening, and because we are liable for any transactions we process I can't imagine operating without it.

Lol absolutely prevents fraud from happening? That is impossible. KYC is more of a cover-your-ass requirement rather than fraud prevention.

With millions of SSN and personal information being available after numerous breaches from health care, etc how exactly are you supposed to vett someone's identity over the Internet?

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#95

Post by MikeTV »

abandonliberty wrote: post #81
Tortoise wrote: post #8

"The default PIN is the last four digits of your registered mobile phone number. Please call Shift support at 800-897-0717 to reset your Shift Card pin." That's a terrible idea. This isn't a library card. You're PIN shouldn't be known by anyone who knows your phone number.

That is the default security of my library card. How universal is this?

You have a library card with a settable PIN? Every one I've gotten has been an auto-incrementing ID with no security.

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#96

Post by wmf »

drcode wrote: post #39

Just a reminder to Bitcoin newbies: This card looks like an OK product (still open questions about how much coinbase is gaming the ask/bid spread) but just realize that this card does NOT use Bitcoin, it uses "Coinbase Bitcoin"[1] which is Bitcoin for which the coinbase company is managing your private key: You only truly own Bitcoins if you own the private key for the account (users of MtGox learn this the hard way…

I don't see how a debit card could work any other way, since VISA is a pull-based system. If I have Bitcoin on my own computer and I swipe the card, how does the right amount of BTC get sucked out of my computer and exchanged?

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#97

Post by celticninja »

nacs wrote: post #74
celticninja wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but if someone intercepts your mail, then they know your address and could possibly know your phone number. How secure is the activation process? Why dont you send the card and PIN out separately like a bank?

> but if someone intercepts your mail, then they know your address and could possibly know your phone number. How secure is the activation process Every "normal" credit and debit card I've received in the mail has used this same procedure -- call a number on a removable sticker stuck to the card to activate it where the only verification is the phone number you're calling from (and caller ID is easily faked). How is…

I was wondering why they think their system is more secure than the traditional method of issuing cards and PINs through the post.

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#98

Post by JupiterMoon »

celticninja wrote: post #70
JupiterMoon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mtgox débâcle springs to mind. EDIT: My point is that a financial service is more than just the protocols used. Actually the protocols are the least important thing to the average customer. The more important thing is trust. I trust that my money in the bank will stay there and that transactions made using my bank will go to the person I say they should. Part of the reason for my trust is in the regulation around…

Yes there is a savings guarantee in the US/UK/EU however if funds are stolen from your bank account you are as unlikely to get them returned as you are to get stolen bitcoin back. The difference is that the government is covering (with taxes) the loss incurred by the bank (if necessary) but that doesn't mean you are automatically covered by this insurance in the case of a theft.

In terms of theft. It depends upon the manner of the theft. If one follows the banks required precautions then one is usually covered (in the UK at least). If one does not then one is not covered -- although I'd agree that banks are increasingly not covering people if they can avoid doing so.

I was more thinking of institutional theft (i.e. embezzlement). I'm almost certain my bank won't just vanish the money I have lent them through my savings account. Of course the same cannot be said of "Random Investment Company Name" who was recommended to me on a forum/down the pub. As yet (and I hope that this changes) non of the bitcoin service companies have risen above this level of trust (for me personally).

EDIT: Added fact that my assessment of trust is my personal subjective opinion and shouldn't be taken as a fact.

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#99

Post by JupiterMoon »

celticninja wrote: post #68
JupiterMoon wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mtgox débâcle springs to mind. EDIT: My point is that a financial service is more than just the protocols used. Actually the protocols are the least important thing to the average customer. The more important thing is trust. I trust that my money in the bank will stay there and that transactions made using my bank will go to the person I say they should. Part of the reason for my trust is in the regulation around…

But that was not a disaster for bitcoin, that was a case of fraud and theft. Not much different to someone embezzling fiat from a firm e.g.secure investmen, and that wasn't a disaster for fiat currencies or the traditional banking system. I think that many people hold bitcoin and bitcoin businesses to a higher standard than they would companies that operate outside this sphere.

> I think that many people hold bitcoin and bitcoin businesses to a higher standard than they would companies that operate outside this sphere.

I hold them to exactly the same standard as traditional financial services. I can see you point in that for many people bitcoin is just voodoo (on the other hand for many people traditional financial services are voodoo and people trust them with their pensions).

Re: Introducing the Shift Card: Use Bitcoin where Visa is accepted

#100

Post by MrOwen »

nacs wrote: post #74
celticninja wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but if someone intercepts your mail, then they know your address and could possibly know your phone number. How secure is the activation process? Why dont you send the card and PIN out separately like a bank?

> but if someone intercepts your mail, then they know your address and could possibly know your phone number. How secure is the activation process Every "normal" credit and debit card I've received in the mail has used this same procedure -- call a number on a removable sticker stuck to the card to activate it where the only verification is the phone number you're calling from (and caller ID is easily faked). How is…

Half of the cards I remember activating were based on the originating phone number (which I think you could still possibly spoof) which should have been tied to your account when you signed up. If the phone you're calling from isn't the same one on your account, there's likely some additional information you provide or maybe go through a CS rep to finish activation. Unfortunately, like you say, there are also many bank's systems who ignore or simply don't care about the call ID number.

As for interception, I guess you could require a signature for delivery but that's a pita. You just have to weigh the risks in that situation and the convenience of not requiring a signature obviously outweighs the risks of theft.

EDIT: grammar

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