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Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

arstechnica.com

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Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#211

Post by aianus »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #36
manachar wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the consumer drives a lot of the healthcare decisions. This has positives, as consumers can be more active participants in their health, but can also lead to people shopping for doctors who will prescribe the drugs that they want based on flimsy research and marketing. Additionally, this is a great backdoor way for consumers to be "educated" about conditions they didn't know they had. Consumers then would…

> This has positives, as consumers can be more active participants in their health, but can also lead to people shopping for doctors who will prescribe the drugs that they want based on flimsy research and marketing. Turns out, people suck at being intelligent healthcare consumers. Its not their fault though. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/why-consumers-often... http://www.nber.org/papers/w21160 Disclaimer:…

Have you ever lived in a country with single-payer healthcare? Let me tell you it's not all roses.

- Months long waits for anything requiring a specialist unless you're literally about to die.

- Arbitrary exclusions like dental and optical.

- Doctors taking in ~50% of the entire provincial budget and whining that it's not enough.

And at a typical tech worker salary this all this ends up being more expensive in additional taxes than just buying the insurance outright would be in the US.

If you're not poor, there's really no reason to prefer single payer.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#212

Post by johncolanduoni »

alanh wrote: post #202
johncolanduoni wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then we have a tragedy of the commons, where Pfizer and Lilly (the makers of Viagra and Cialis respectively) will wait for the other to create generic ED ads that they will both benefit from.

Or they would, you know, work together for exactly this reason, like how dairy farmers supported Got Milk? together

"Got Milk?" was originally commissioned by the California Milk Processor Board, which is administered by the California Department of Food and Agriculture (i.e. the government) [1]. Also note that milk lacks much in the way of strong brand identity or distinguishing features, unlike Viagra and Cialis which are very different medications.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Got_Milk%3F

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#213

Post by smadge »

joshuaheard wrote: post #10

I've never understood the logic behind prescription drug ads. The first rule of sales is to pitch the decision maker. You can't buy prescription drugs without a doctor's authorization, so basically the ads are asking people to go beg their doctors for medicine they may, or may not, need. The doctor, in turn, may give in to the patient's emotional pleas, since they are, in effect, in a customer service business. This…

Well, drug companies also market directly to doctors. Only about 12% of pharmaceutical marketing money is "direct to consumer."

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#214

Post by aianus »

pinaceae wrote: post #187

only the US and NZ allow direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription drugs. let that sink in a bit. from germany to japan to ghana to timor leste - everyone else has disagreed on this approach.

Argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.

Only Uruguay has legal marijuana, doesn't make illegal marijuana a fantastic public policy.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#215

Post by Florin_Andrei »

hammock wrote: post #165
nsxwolf wrote: post #93

These ads are one of the main reasons I became a cord cutter. I'm very happy they have not yet followed me onto any of the streaming services I use. They are the creepiest thing ever on television. The actors sit around dinner tables with family members speaking unnatural, FDA manipulated dialog ("Oh, I'm doing great, I've been taking Pradaxa for my afib, not caused by a heart valve problem!") Then you get the unendi…

The irony of wanting to ban Rx drug ads because they are creepy, is that it was regulations that made them creepy to begin with. (You seem aware of this already) There is an argument to be made for consumer advertising for a drug like Viagra. Without awareness that an effective treatment exists, patients with ED or another embarrassing condition are not likely to bring it up with their doctor on their own, thus resul…

The only mental framework where that argument makes sense is some kind of rampaging free-market-worship.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#216

Post by chrisan »

refurb wrote: post #129
aquadrop wrote: post #98

Great news, so pharma companies could focus more on drugs itself and less on marketing. It's huge money waste with mysterious intention - if your drug is the best, doctors should use it anyway, and if it's bad but you can increase its usage with huge marketing campaign, then mankind just gets screwed for own money.

if your drug is the best, doctors should use it anyway Amazingly that is untrue. Doctors have to know that it's the best drug and they often don't. Doctors are often creatures of habit. If I gave my last patient Crestor and it lowered their cholesterol, why not try the same with the next patient?

> Amazingly that is untrue. Doctors have to know that it's the best drug and they often don't. Doctors are often creatures of habit. If I gave my last patient Crestor and it lowered their cholesterol, why not try the same with the next patient?

What you need is a clinical pharmacist not an advertisement. I am perhaps biased as my wife is a clinical pharmacist and one of her biggest things is to make the doctors use evidenced based practice rather than "this worked before" or "I saw this on TV".

The amazing part is despite actual studies (all readily available on pubmed etc) she gets ignored and the doctor does what he/she wants anyways. Some older male doctors (who perhaps lack some respect) will literally throw the printed out studies my wife brings to them in the trash.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#217

Post by Florin_Andrei »

phren0logy wrote: post #32

I'm a doctor, and I think this is a good idea. The information provided to both doctors and patients by drug companies is marketing material. The best source of information is peer-reviewed publications, and even those are subject to some bias. Still, that's the best source we have, and should be the primary way all of us get health care information. If you, as a patient, do not understand what the reasearch articles…

> In my clinic, I do not accept visits or items from drug reps (including glossy marketing materials, pens, etc); the only thing they can leave me is a copy of a peer-reviewed article.

Thank you. This is the only rational approach.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#218

Post by Florin_Andrei »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #198
davak wrote: post #194

See how much money your physician takes from drug companies. https://www.cms.gov/openpayments/ As a physician I can tell you that this type of public reporting has radically decreased the amount of stuff that doctors take from drug companies. Removing advertising from the TV will do the same. It is much easier for a physician to give a patient the most correct medication without these biases. Remember that in the US,…

I would argue the opposite. By creating a separate class of individual that receives information about medicines we obfuscate what the options are. Under the current model a doctor could say "You should take " and I would have little to no exposure to alternatives" . IMO the real issue is that advertising (not just pharmaceutical) is not very informative anymore, we need a return to fact based ads. No more "sexy" wom…

> information about medicines

TV ads are not "information about medicines", that's just ridiculous. They are mind-games the advertisers play with potential customers in hope of squeezing more cash out of them.

You want true information? Read peer-review studies.

> Under the current model a doctor could say "You should take " and I would have little to no exposure to alternatives

Right, 'cause doctors are evil like that. I just saw an ad revealing what doctors don't want me to know, I am totally going to believe it!

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#219

Post by danieltillett »

Turbo_hedgehog wrote: post #172
hammock wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony of wanting to ban Rx drug ads because they are creepy, is that it was regulations that made them creepy to begin with. (You seem aware of this already) There is an argument to be made for consumer advertising for a drug like Viagra. Without awareness that an effective treatment exists, patients with ED or another embarrassing condition are not likely to bring it up with their doctor on their own, thus resul…

What if you allow basically the same ad but disallow mention of any brand names - only the generic name or condition to be treated?

This is what we have in Australia. Vague ads talking about various diseases and advising you to talk to your doctor about your health problems.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#220

Post by metalliqaz »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #198
davak wrote: post #194

See how much money your physician takes from drug companies. https://www.cms.gov/openpayments/ As a physician I can tell you that this type of public reporting has radically decreased the amount of stuff that doctors take from drug companies. Removing advertising from the TV will do the same. It is much easier for a physician to give a patient the most correct medication without these biases. Remember that in the US,…

I would argue the opposite. By creating a separate class of individual that receives information about medicines we obfuscate what the options are. Under the current model a doctor could say "You should take " and I would have little to no exposure to alternatives" . IMO the real issue is that advertising (not just pharmaceutical) is not very informative anymore, we need a return to fact based ads. No more "sexy" wom…

Ads have always been propaganda.
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