Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements • Hacker News Board

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#91

Post by CreRecombinase » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

jonlucc wrote: post #40

sanderjd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone, something, or some organization needs to be responsible for properly communicating and educating consumers on a drug Why shouldn't this just be their doctor?

The best reason, in my opinion, is that there are new drugs all the time. The FDA approves on the order of 20 or so drugs per year (that's new drugs, not including new generic versions of old drugs). So physicians have to learn 2 new drugs per month in enough depth to consider how it should change their current prescribing habits.

That's not a good way to understand the problem. For any particular medical field, that number of new drugs is going to be much lower.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#92

Post by wpietri » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

masterleep wrote: post #13

t_t_t_TTT_t_t_t wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed! Bring back the cigarette commercials.

I'm glad we agree on that.

When someone values their personal notions and pet theories over the addiction and death of millions, it mainly looks creepy to me.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#93

Post by nsxwolf » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:25 PM UTC

These ads are one of the main reasons I became a cord cutter. I'm very happy they have not yet followed me onto any of the streaming services I use.

They are the creepiest thing ever on television. The actors sit around dinner tables with family members speaking unnatural, FDA manipulated dialog ("Oh, I'm doing great, I've been taking Pradaxa for my afib, not caused by a heart valve problem!") Then you get the unending list of side effects read aloud ("death" almost always one) while the actors smile and stare off into space.

Occasionally, one of these ads will come in a 2 minute and 30 second variety that fills the entire commercial break.

A regulation I'd like to see is that all the side effects must be acted out in the commercial as they are read. Show the peacefully sleeping woman suddenly awakened, choking on her swelling tongue. Or a man running around with an actual 4+ hour erection.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#94

Post by ejstronge » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

jonlucc wrote: post #40

sanderjd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone, something, or some organization needs to be responsible for properly communicating and educating consumers on a drug Why shouldn't this just be their doctor?

The best reason, in my opinion, is that there are new drugs all the time. The FDA approves on the order of 20 or so drugs per year (that's new drugs, not including new generic versions of old drugs). So physicians have to learn 2 new drugs per month in enough depth to consider how it should change their current prescribing habits.

For most fields of medicine, new drugs (and not reiterations of previously-approved drugs) are rare. Further, a new drug will have generated extensive hype before its approval, given the requirement for Phase I, II and III trials for most approvals.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to state that physicians are more than able to track all drugs relevant to their core patient populations.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#95

Post by throwaway2048 » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #75

Alex3917 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never understood the logic behind prescription drug ads. The first rule of sales is to pitch the decision maker. "Surveys conducted by FDA and private organizations consistently show that DTC advertisements have an impact on whether consumers request and receive a specific brand-name prescription from their physician. [...] In several of these surveys, consumers were asked whether they had seen an advertisemen…

> The data doesn't care whether or not you see the logic behind it. This is true only if corporate executives are amoral automatons running hill-climbing algorithms. Rather than, say, citizens who use logic to make responsible decisions not just for their short-term profits but for the long-term good of their community.

Corporations care a great deal more about short term profit in general.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#96

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

nostromo wrote: post #86

toomuchtodo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most healthcare consumers don't shop around by cost for their healthcare, either because they can't (emergency services) or because its too damn hard (example below). I encourage you to call your three closest hospitals, pick three surgical procedures, and ask them what the cash rate is from their chargemaster. You may get an answer from one hospital, possibly.

Most healthcare consumers don't shop around by cost for their healthcare because they don't pay the bills.

True! But the healthcare market is grossly inefficient. Prices are hidden from users. Drug makers can pitch straight to consumers, who aren't medical professionals.

I'd agree that consumers would shop around given the proper incentives, and as long as those incentives didn't diminish the healthcare they receive (or their health in general).

Single payer seems to be the better option. It streamlines collecting revenue for the program, and the program is large enough that it can bargain or set pricing with healthcare providers.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#97

Post by rtl49 » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:27 PM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #69

MichaelGG wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good thing in one way. People should be free to buy chemicals at will. The disturbing part is that it's a forced tax paid to doctors to get RX's written each month. Even worse, this further kills equality. A worker desiring to boost performance can easily afford top-notch medicines -- speed's only $20 a month for a starting dose at a pharmacy. But the prescription alone can be 10x that, and sometimes may be…

> People should be free to buy chemicals at will. this would introduce a myriad of acute public health issues and do great harm to the public good, costing taxpayers billions of dollars for remediation. Edit: the DHHS's report on prescription medication abuse is good reading in this area: http://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/hhs_prescription_drug_ab...

I don't claim this myself, but I believe his or her argument is that the freedom to choose should take precedence over the cost to taxpayers, regardless of the cost.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#98

Post by aquadrop » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

Great news, so pharma companies could focus more on drugs itself and less on marketing. It's huge money waste with mysterious intention - if your drug is the best, doctors should use it anyway, and if it's bad but you can increase its usage with huge marketing campaign, then mankind just gets screwed for own money.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#99

Post by wooter » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

ksherlock wrote: post #30

tosseraccount wrote: post #11

Can't a free market sort out the problems with drug use?

As it is, there are too many distortions. You don't pay for your drugs, your insurance company does. You don't even pay for your insurance, your employer does. So once a year, maybe, you grumble that your insurance premiums (the part you pay, at least) are going up, then the next day ask your doctor about Scrotium.

Also, tying health insurance to employment is a direct result of the Feds wage and price controls of the past. Business couldn't compete in cash, so they went for the next biggest benefit.

Re: Doctors want ban on prescription drug, device advertisements

#100

Post by gist » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:28 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #90

gist wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I've never understood the logic behind prescription drug ads. The first rule of sales is to pitch the decision maker." Plenty of logic is there. Part of the purpose is to make the Doctor pay attention to the advertising that they see in a journal. [1] How? Patient goes in and "asks their doctor" about a drug. Then another patient. And another. So now when the doctor sees an ad (or the detail man comes in) the doctor…

Patient goes in and "asks their doctor" about a drug. I wonder if this really ever happens. I mean, for many of the ads, it's hard to tell even what the drug does, so going to your doctor and asking for that med would amount to a random question.

Well let's say you have a discussion with your doctor and they note there is a drug for your gastroparesis.

They might mention some names or might not.

You aren't ready so you basically don't ask for a script.

Later a week a month whatever there is an ad for Reglan on TV and you think "hey that was what the Doctor mentioned".

The ad is an ad, well done, so you in theory are now more receptive to taking the med. Especially since your symptoms haven't gotten any better. You are more willing to consider a solution to your problem.

So next appointment you ask more questions and walk away with the prescription.