Benefits of Sarcasm • Hacker News Board

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#51

Post by shasta » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 8:04 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #28

danso wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to argue against that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for this secondary meaning: "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result" . The situation of "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" is not "deliberately contrary" to "what one expects ". It may be contrary to what one wants ...but that's not the same thing...o…

> The situation of "ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife" is not "deliberately contrary" to "what one expects". It may be contrary to what one wants...but that's not the same thing...otherwise, virtually every disappointment in life could be described as "ironic". If you found a couple of spoons when you searched for a knife, that would be merely frustrating ("damn, where's a knife when you need it?"). It…

There seems to be more to irony than just being unexpected. If I'm playing poker and get dealt a straight flush, I wouldn't describe that as ironic unless something about the context made that particular hand notable as well as unexpected. For example, if we'd just been discussing hand odds. The bit in the song about the guy who avoided flying his whole life to have his plane crash seems like irony to me, though.

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#52

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 8:07 PM UTC

rtl49 wrote: post #29

pjc50 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All professional communication demands a certain amount of care and moderation. Not just for humour but for criticism, praise, discerning preferences etc. Use of appropriate humour can greatly improve things but you have to know your audience.

Humor, sure. But sarcasm comes by definition at the expense of an idea or another person. Thus I submit that the article has not adequately supported the argument that sarcasm can be helpful in the workplace.

Some ideas are bad and should be laughed at.

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#53

Post by szatkus » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 9:45 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #27

rtl49 wrote: post #19

Instead of avoiding sarcasm completely in the office, the research suggests sarcasm, used with care and in moderation, can be effectively used and trigger some creative sparks. Who really has the presence of mind and self control to use sarcasm with "care and moderation" when in the midst of a work-related social interaction? I think this is just a silly extrapolation to draw from the evidence presented. Sarcasm can…

All professional communication demands a certain amount of care and moderation. Not just for humour but for criticism, praise, discerning preferences etc. Use of appropriate humour can greatly improve things but you have to know your audience.

Working in one team isn't "professional communication". At least it shouldn't be :)

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#54

Post by vlehto » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 11:12 PM UTC

moonchrome wrote: post #23

The worst thing about using sarcasm with coworkers who aren't on the same page is when they miss it and not only take it seriously but accept the statement. If you tell them/they figure out you were being sarcastic not only did they miss it in the first place they actually supported a sarcastic statement so they hate you for making them look stupid. If you don't tell them they find out it's wrong and think you're an…

I'd hate you mostly because of the lost brain power. Obvious sarcasm is OK, it's the guesswork that gets under my skin.

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#55

Post by anotherevan » Thu, Nov 19, 2015, 11:56 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #6

One of the few lessons to stick with me from high school English was during the lesson on irony, when a student asked "Is sarcasm the same thing as irony?" and the teacher thought about it for a moment, before responding that, yes, it is, kind of, but it's the lowest form of irony. I really enjoy irony in life and in literature, so I try to avoid sarcasm as to not cheapen the fun of "higher" forms of irony (like fina…

I think your teacher was riffing on a well known quote, often attributed to Oscar Wilde: “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.”

Or the common variation: “Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, but the highest form of intelligence.”

So it may be that your teacher was just messing with you.

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#56

Post by moonchrome » Fri, Nov 20, 2015, 12:05 AM UTC

vlehto wrote: post #54

moonchrome wrote: post #23

The worst thing about using sarcasm with coworkers who aren't on the same page is when they miss it and not only take it seriously but accept the statement. If you tell them/they figure out you were being sarcastic not only did they miss it in the first place they actually supported a sarcastic statement so they hate you for making them look stupid. If you don't tell them they find out it's wrong and think you're an…

I'd hate you mostly because of the lost brain power. Obvious sarcasm is OK, it's the guesswork that gets under my skin.

But that's just it - how "obvious" something is is completely subjective. I was baffled that the other person took me seriously because it seemed obviously ridiculous to me. After a while I just accepted that I can't be sarcastic with people I don't know well enough if I care about getting my point across.

Re: Benefits of Sarcasm

#57

Post by vlehto » Fri, Nov 20, 2015, 9:21 AM UTC

moonchrome wrote: post #56

vlehto wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd hate you mostly because of the lost brain power. Obvious sarcasm is OK, it's the guesswork that gets under my skin.

But that's just it - how "obvious" something is is completely subjective. I was baffled that the other person took me seriously because it seemed obviously ridiculous to me. After a while I just accepted that I can't be sarcastic with people I don't know well enough if I care about getting my point across.

Point was that it's not necessarily "because you made me look stupid". If that was the case, I would believe to be utter moron by now. (Getting sarcasm is not my thing, but that doesn't keep me from using it..)