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Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

bbc.com

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Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#31

Post by TorKlingberg »

bane wrote: post #26
impendia wrote: post #2

On a visit to South Korea, I was astonished to watch a national weather report on televsion. It showed the weather in Seoul, in Busan, in a few other major cities, and on Dokdo! (Dokdo is this tiny island mentioned in the article, disputed by Japan, with two people living on it.) In this case, the status of the island is largely a proxy for remaining Korean bitterness over WWII, towards the Japanese who (at least in…

It gets lost in all the propaganda (designed to get the citizens behind a complex geopolitical effort) - Dokdo is mostly about fishing and other resource rights. The island itself is worthless, but the 200 nautical miles around it aren't. Here in the U.S. I've even seen local Korean owned businesses with posters up in the window "Dokdo is Korean territory!" and other such slogans. It may seem absolutely insignificant…

You would think South Korea has bigger issues to deal with, what with North Korea to the north and China to the west. I think South Korea focuses so much on the Liancourt rocks precisely because there is zero risk of an actual confrontation with Japan. It has become a safe way of conspicuous national posturing.

Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#32

Post by 100timesthis »

smcl wrote: post #19

This sort of situation has led to the exact opposite - territory which both two countries claim doesn't belong to them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bir_Tawil This is because both Sudan and Egypt claim a slightly nicer parcel of land by the coast, and presumably taking Bir Tawil results in ceding the claim on the other part. It all came about due to slight ambiguities chopping up the old British Empire colonies in…

Someone claimed that territory because his daughter's dream was to be a princess[1].

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-man-plants-flag-clai...

Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#33

Post by lmorris84 »

andy_ppp wrote: post #3

Ha, well played BBC! You mean the state broadcaster for the UK managed to avoid mentioning the Falklands in an article about disputed barren islands. I'm truly shocked!

Falklands have around 3,000 people who actively WANT their home to be a British Overseas Territory. Argentina's claim to them holds about as much water as my claim to Buckingham Palace.

Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#37

Post by bmh_ca »

The reason most of these islands are of such importance is because territorial waters, customs zones, and exclusive economic zones are extended by any sovereign land permanently above water, according to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea that binds almost all states.

So these little islands determine which state is legally entitled to write legislation that determines taxation, shipping, airline routes, oil, fish, and any other territorial, customs, and economic rights in the area around these islands.

See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters

Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#38

Post by igsmo »

impendia wrote: post #22
igsmo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. This reminds me of the territorial dispute right now between Canada and the US, http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the-tiny-islands-where-ca... Let's go to war! 2. There is no dispute over Dokdo, it's Korean territory plain and simple. But if Japan really wants it, they should just take it or else just shut the fuck up about it and stop bringing it up every year.

It is, in fact, disputed by Japan (which refers to the island as Takeshima): http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/asia-paci/takeshima/position.ht... But it is not so actively disputed by Japan. Meanwhile, South Korea flies a large flag there, and the two permanent residents can choose between cellular telephone service providers, as more than one company has built towers there.

Bingo! Korea puts a flag there because it's Korean territory. Koreans are living there because it's Korean territory. There's no dispute there. Like I said if Japan really thinks its theirs have the Japanese go to Dokdo and drive a geomantic spike into the island, and then build a shinto shrine on the island, and just take it. It's not the first time Japan has stolen or taken land from Korea. Just take the fucking island or just shut the fuck up about it, every single god damn year they bring this shit up.

Re: Barren islands that countries never stop fighting over

#39

Post by WildUtah »

These island provide a valuable public service. If you've seen the Republican debates, you've heard Rubio declare war on Russia and Syria and ISIS, Fiorina reject diplomacy in all cases until we next decisively win a war, Kasich competing with both to be the most belligerent, and Bush wanting to go back to Iraq and Syria and celebrate his brother's big success there. A few years ago, John McCain held a campaign event where he sang a 'bomb Iran' song he made up.

If Japan and Russia and China and Korea and Argentina and Canada and Denmark keep these islands out there in uncertain status, they're doing the right thing. When a McCain or Rubio comes to power in those countries, they have a ready-made harmless casus belli to whine about without actually killing anyone. It's like how we have sports teams to consume our violent territorial primate impulses in a constructive healthy competition.

Whereas if Rubio comes to power in the USA aching for war with Russia, we're in danger of global nuclear war if the CIA and KGB guys can't keep their leaders in line.

I tell you, I didn't think it was possible to finish the debate thinking that Trump was the level headed, calm, and wise one in the group until I heard the other ones.

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