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The War ISIS Wants

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Re: The War ISIS Wants

#171

Post by bwanab »

thewarrior wrote: post #130
kaz1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one says "keeping up the articles of Magna Carta, rather than resort to catastrophic violence on the part of the powerful outlawed states, would likely help lessen some of the chaos in today's world", does it imply that one is physically calling to go back to the thirteenth century? Similarly, Americans calling to restore the fourth amendment may not mean taking the clock back to the nineteenth century. Salafism i…

I don't understand what you're getting at but I'll try to explain. Fukuyama said that Capitalist Democracy was the pinnacle of civilisation. In the same way Salafi / Wahabbi ideology says that we must as much as possible live like the prophet and his contemporaries. Any innovation is derided as Bida/Heretical. So its not possible to reform certain laws in response to changing circumstances. Eg: Women can inherit only…

It's my understanding that the fact that women could inherit at all was a huge move toward social progress at the time.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#172

Post by Scarblac »

Riesling wrote: post #120
kuschku wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe instead, European nations should look into instituting domestic policies that encourage the population to maintain a healthy replacement rate. So, 18 months maternity/paternity leave, 180€ per month per child you have, plus tax breaks, plus better credit rating, plus 12 more sick days a year, plus subsidized kindergarten and daycare (with guaranteed daycare place from age 3 on), cheap whole-day school for chi…

I can only speak from a German perspective but the real problem from my point of view is that in todays world everything seems as if it is going down slope. Todays generation has less job security than the generation before. Todays generation does not have a secured pension (like the generation before had). It is expected of todays generation to be a life-long learner (if you are not, your economic value drops immedi…

The few generations before were the only generations ever to have job security. I suspect it was because Europe was so devastated by the war (and so many of the previous generation were dead), that the economy couldn't help but grow.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#173

Post by drak0n1c »

asgard1024 wrote: post #17
omginternets wrote: post #6

It's not that I disagree with the points brought up by this article (how could I! We've known these things to be true for years!), but I'm worried about the leap that people make, namely that military action isn't necessary. It's hard to imagine any effective strategy that doesn't involve killing people in Syria. It's disgusting, necessary, and -- I willingly admit -- not sufficient.

> It's hard to imagine any effective strategy that doesn't involve killing people I disagree, one is actually described in the article: "[For] the youth of the nation are closer to the innate nature [of humans] on account of the rebelliousness within them." Do you think capitalism/democracy/whatever mix we have in the West does a good job of preventing these people fighting for "Jihad"? We don't really give young peo…

That sci-fi book was already written, "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin. A computer is in control of a nearly global utopian socialist society, but critical thinking, emotions, and familial attachment is strictly discouraged via regular drug-aided "therapy", propaganda, surveillance, etc. A softer, peace-loving, technocratic version of 1984. The protagonist rebels, relapses, and rebels again, eventually in spectacular fashion. It's revealed that the computer is used by an elite class who do all the planning, and who grow their ranks by taking in those who are the most successful and clever in their rebellion. It may not be quite what you're looking for, because some members of this hidden leadership are quite cynical, but many are also sincere and think that their work is good citizenry.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#174

Post by csallen »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #155
csallen wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of analogy is not to say that two things are similar in every way.

Except the two groups are starkly different in every way but irredentist and domineering ideology that the analogy is useless.

You're still missing the point. An analogy is not meant to show that two things are similar. Therefore responding by saying that they are, in fact, different doesn't refute anything.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#175

Post by knowaveragejoe »

rdtsc wrote: post #154
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source for "all those "moderate" rebels switched to ISIS"? Source for "$100B in funding"? This smacks of conspiracy claptrap that adds nothing of substance to the discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... "Defense Intelligence $80.1 billion[12] 3.3% Because of classified nature, budget is an estimate and may not be the actual figure" Something makes me doubt another $20B into the intelligence budget would have changed the outcome for the better. More sauce: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/1... https://en.zamanalwsl.net/readNews.…

That budget includes all of the intelligence apparatus' budget, ongoing research programs, so on and so forth. So likely not even close to the $100B mentioned.

Secondly, I asked for source to support the claim that "all rebels switched to ISIS", but apparently you don't have that and are just of the opinion that that is what has occurred.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#176

Post by vlunkr »

Vraxx wrote: post #166
nickff wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are proposing that the French should respond to having over a hundred of their fellow citizens killed, and hundreds more injured by loving the supporters and leaders of ISIS?

No, I think he meant other Muslims that aren't/weren't involved with ISIS. Remember, ISIS is still a radical minority, and there are Muslims who don't support ISIS.

This is what makes me upset about the many US governors who say they will refuse Syrian refugees. They are playing right into their hand: letting their fear guide their politics.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#177

Post by jordanpg »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #70
jordanpg wrote: post #62

How could it be that there are people in the world who, on the one hand, post videos on YouTube, and on the other, believe things about the universe that are manifestly and self-evidently false? (Yes, I'm referring to all religions here.) Religion -- all religion -- is so obviously nonsense, and yet the human race goes on and on and on, having endless tortured discussions about the earthly consequences of religious t…

"There is only one proper response to this and that is to make damn sure that I laugh religious people out of the room whenever possible." That approach has proven to not work. Didn't you realize that the "religious people" would do the same to you? Their reality is different from yours.

Proven not to work by who? By what?

The point is, "their reality" is manifestly, obviously wrong.

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#178

Post by varjag »

maxharris wrote: post #165
varjag wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You underestimate the degree to which people of violence listen to the language of violence. The article suggests the military conquest is the key of Daesh attractiveness. But similarly, its military loss will be its demise. Lost territory and decimated ranks will make it a lot less exciting to the recruits. Harder wars have been fought and won before.

Daesh What do you think of this piece by Maajid Nawaz? Why Not Calling ISIS “Islamic” Hurts Muslim Reformers: http://jrbenjamin.com/2015/03/06/maajid-nawaz-why-not-callin...

I couldn't care less about Islamic. I'm not calling it "state".

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#179

Post by tremon »

kaz1 wrote: post #152
thewarrior wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cant reply directly as HN has blockedit. You're right but woman not being a breadwinner is no longer the social reality today. So do we change the law or go back to the old ways ?

Whatever a woman earns -- after taking care of her primary/general responsibility of largely being the minister/secretary of (informal) education, cultural and internal affairs within the realm of a budding family -- remains with her and is not obliged to spend for the basic subsistence of the family. She still gets her inheritances. Besides, as the last of the Abrahamic religions today, Islam presents itself as the…

> [..] as the last of the Abrahamic religions today, Islam [..]

I presume you mean "latest" here? The term "last" implies that Christianity and Judaism are no longer practiced today...

Re: The War ISIS Wants

#180

Post by CrimsnBlade »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #83
return0 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These terrorist groups are becoming a recurring thing though, a failed one is replaced by another. They are aided by technology that allows inflicting powerful hits and of course by money from their patrons. The question is if there is something more than just extremism here, what is the failure of the western secularity to become attractive and engulf immigrants and whether this is phenomenon can spring up on its ow…

"Universal condemnation" is precisely what they're seeking. The more notoriety, the better. Hence, pushing gay men off of buildings and drowning men in cages (with underwater cameras filming). They are seeking street cred, a rep, a mystique of fear. Condemnation doesn't work. What does work is a combination of excellent police work in routing out cells of recruiters and operators, and precise, devastating bombing rai…

I agree that they are seeking universal condemnation, which at the same time confuses me. It seems to me that no matter what the differences are, eventually everyone will unite with a single goal to defeat them. Angering the entire world in order to get publicity and instill fear is only going to backfire on them in the end. It seems that they're already on a steady path towards failure.
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