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Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

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Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#111
post #61

> Dang it, guys. Encryption is now illegal for us to use, everyone uninstall PGP. Said no terrorist or criminal. Once the cat has been let out of the bag there is no getting it in again.

or ask Google, Apple, and Microsoft to automatically un-install the nefarious applications from all computers and phones... not sure what they would do about Linux ...

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#112
"One key premise here seems to be that prior to the Snowden reporting, The Terrorists helpfully and stupidly used telephones and unencrypted emails to plot, so Western governments were able to track their plotting and disrupt at least large-scale attacks. That would come as a massive surprise to the victims of the attacks of 2002 in Bali, 2004 in Madrid, 2005 in London, 2008 in Mumbai, and April 2013 at the Boston Marathon."

https://theintercept.com/2015/11/15/exploiting-emotions-abou...

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#113
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that by calling them 'bad people' you imply that they committed the crime because they were 'bad people'. And that's the core of the problem. They were not 'bad people' before they committed the crime. They were just people in need of help. By focusing on how they were 'bad people' you make it seem like you haven't contributed to the problem and there is no other solution then to fight them (using viol…

This sounds uncomfortably close to victim blaming.

I am not blaming the victims at all. For example: You could call many people living in the hood 'bad people' because of the crimes they commit but are they really 'bad people' or do they eventually commit these crimes because of the situation they grow up in and the disadvantages they have had in life? By stating this, am I blaming the victims of armed robberies, of theft of murder? Of course I am not. I just think we should have a nuanced rational discussion about how we can prevent crimes instead of discussing about offenders and victims, bad people and good people.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! The generation of large primes needs to be banned. The government needs to work with chips manufacturers to insure that no computing device can generate large primes. This is the root of the issue. If large primes go away, so does encryption! We need to make sure our government understands this. #BanLargePrimes

> The government needs to work with chips manufacturers to insure that no computing device can generate large primes. Please don't tempt them.

I'm sure I don't have to tell you I was being sarcastic. :)

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#117
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some would argue that banning tools of any kind is a stupid and feckless way to address cultural problems.

But that arguing would clearly be flawed. I could thing of a lot of weapons that I would not want to see in the hands of everybody I meet on the street. I think it is partially correct to say that about certain information based "tools" (like encryption or information in newspapers) but sometimes that is not true as well, for example with certain malware

Historically, though, the real threat is usually a state actor -- often one's own government -- that has been granted (or has seized) a monopoly on such tools. In particular, the modern notion that the state is the only rightful wielder of force has an unlimited downside.

Terrorism is pretty far down the list of things that frighten me.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you can see that they think the exact opposite. In order to do something like that, they have to convince themselves that they the good guys, and it has to be done to "purify the evil in the world" or something. The truth is that people are not inherently bad. Evil feeds on itself; if you insist on calling them bad, then you are falling into the same trap that they did. Hopefully you wouldn't act in such a hei…

> The truth is that people are not inherently bad. I don't know about that. I'd argue that most people don't think of themselves as bad, but it doesn't make them not-bad. And humanity definitely has base instincts - if we didn't, we wouldn't need governments and police.

Well if you want to get really pedantic, nothing is inherently anything because all meaning is constructed in our minds. Evil is a word humans use to categorize things, not a description of objective reality.

I would agree that most people don't think of themselves as bad, but since there's no objective 'bad', wether or not they're 'actually bad' is up to the observer. When a person is labeled as 'evil' it's not a description of them as a person but a description of what the describer thinks of them. Hitler wasn't evil because he killed millions of people, he was evil because the general consensus is that doing the stuff he did makes you an evil person.

If one loses sight of this and starts think of evil as objective reality, they're taking their biases and opinions as objective reality, and down that path lies ruin.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#119

Jim Bamford of Foreign Policy said encryption was part of the way this was done. On the Diane Rehm Show, when asked what we know, he said "not much, but that encryption or anonymizers, like Tor, might have been used to hide their communications". So they're already working to plant that narrative in listeners' heads.

"was done" vs "might have been" - you're making a big jump.

If you weren't aware, Bamford is actually one of the good guys in this debate. Don't make him say things he didn't say.

Re: Times Pulls Article Blaming Encryption in Paris Terror Attack

#120

"One key premise here seems to be that prior to the Snowden reporting, The Terrorists helpfully and stupidly used telephones and unencrypted emails to plot, so Western governments were able to track their plotting and disrupt at least large-scale attacks. That would come as a massive surprise to the victims of the attacks of 2002 in Bali, 2004 in Madrid, 2005 in London, 2008 in Mumbai, and April 2013 at the Boston Ma…

It's even more absurd than that. The premise is that we can have a public worldwide debate that emphasizes how important encryption is to successfully carrying out terrorist attacks, convince the world to give up their privacy for the sake of safety, and after the majority of the protestors have been defeated by public awareness that encryption and terrorism go hand-in-hand, the terrorists will go back to using phone calls and unencrypted email.
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