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VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

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Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like World War II was a religious war because soldiers held to their crosses and died crying out to their god. Germans had even "Gott mit uns" written on a handgun. It was obviously a religious conflict. Honestly, I'm starting to believe media is painting terrorism as religion issue on purpose - because it's easier to hate the other side if you can assume it's their faith that makes them want to hurt you. You do…

Foreign policy certainly created circumstances that enabled the creation of Isis. But homosexuals thrown off rooftops, infidels and adulterers stoned in the market square, and young girls raped and sold as sex slaves is not a political result. Neither was the targeting of Charlie Hebdo over a few cartoons of a long deceased man.

Religion is what empowers the war. It's the oldest trick in the book for getting popular support. But the root cause and the reason for the war is not religion.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#132
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you accept all of the other irrational tenets of the religion, then why not accept the idea that god wants you to bomb children? And if you believe that's really what god wants, then who are you to refuse?

People will believe whatever it is that they want to believe, religious texts can be twisted to support just about any position, or the opposite to that position.

I think the outermost comment made a great point that religion is basically a tool to manipulate people, to make them make irrational moves. After all, if you want people to move rationally, you make rational suggestions, otherwise even if people are doing the right thing, they're doing it due to irrational reasons.

When people are made to do good things due to irrational reasons, they may be made to do bad things due to the same or similar reasons the next day. A religion can teach to love and it can teach to hate. Why not discard such a tool and let people make their own decisions with better reasoning other than fear/love of God or wanting to have a better afterlife?

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#134

I'm Muslim and the problem is not about Islam. Problem is all about the people who want to gain money for themselves. I know a truth that makes sense anytime I remember; everything is related to money or sex in this world. Nothing else matters. Religion is just a tool to manage the money.

Thank you downvoters, I couldn't do it without you! Meh..

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#136
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

World's largest arms exporter: US ($10,194,000,000 in 2014) World's largest arms importer: Saudi Arabia ($4,243,000,000 in 2014) To me, these are scary numbers. > When a country decides to invest in arms, rather than in education, housing, the environment, and health services for its people, it is depriving a whole generation of its right to prosperity and happiness. We have produced one firearm for every ten inhabit…

It appears, from what I could find, that Saudia Arabia's yearly spending on education is $57.9B, they spend $42.7B on health, with a total spending of $229.3. So they spend 25% of their budget on education and less then 2% on arms importation. Yes they could spend that money on something else, but please don't make it seem like they are neglecting healthcare or educational spending for arms.

http://www.us-sabc.org/custom/news/details.cfm?id=1645

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#137

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Hello. I really like your honesty, courage and passion that I can sense from what you wrote. I don't want to sound offending, but you are saying that you are happy to discuss this and I have almost no contact with deep religious persons that are in IT, so I have a couple of questions. 1. Where is the boundary of your beliefs? I'm always trying to be polite with my dev co-workers, but for example if I write a flagged…

Since you sound interested I'll give you my take. I work in tech but I do it as an evangelical missionary. I think I'm not too far outside the norm (as much as there is such a thing) for an American protestant. Of course the answers to your questions can vary pretty widely based on who you ask but that leads me to think you might be interested in hearing from more than one person.

1.) The boundary of my beliefs - in terms of people offending me by what they say or write - I really don't care and don't get offended. I have zero expectation for people who don't adhere to my beliefs to say things in line with them. If another person who is a Christian says things I think are really out of line, it wouldn't offend me but I'd try to engage them and work it out - but people who don't believe in it, I don't expect to act like they do. If a person who is of another faith or an atheist is interested in discussing something like the validity of the Bible, I'm happy to have that discussion as long as it is a real discussion. If it's a debate with us just mindlessly exchanging arguments, I have better things to do.

2) I don't think IT and religion are at odds in any way. The tension happens more at the level of your next question. IT is too far removed from those fundamental questions. In fact, as someone who's life is focused on sharing a message with as many people as possibe, IT is awesome.

3) This is trickier. If something is for sure a scientific fact and it conflicts with what I believe my faith teaches about the nature of the world then my assumption is that I've somehow misunderstood what my faith teaches. The only authority I recognize for this is the Bible - so to simplify the discussion - if a fact contradicts what I believe the Bible says then I assume my understanding of the Bible is wrong and I adjust. For your two examples - coming to understand evolution and fit it into my faith has been an on-going process for me over a lot of year. The Big Bang is something that fits my world view better than one that proposes God does not exist.

4) Same as above but I think that a lot of what people believe to be "historically proofed facts" about the Bible are in fact wrong and reflect a lack of information with regards to current knowledge on history. A lot of theories about when parts of the Bible were written and who wrote them rest on the bias of the theories authors rather than any facts. For instance I believe the New Testament was written by people who knew Jesus Christ, saw what he did in person or knew people from that group. I do not think it was written much later by people creating a religion.

If I were to find out something I believe to be true is absolutely false - I would evaluate and adjust. I've done it in my lifetime. It's something I do about more than just my faith. My politics have changed during my adult life and lots of beliefs I have, have moved as I experience more and learn more. I've been living in Europe for 4 years, for example, and in that time I've changed my mind about lots of things. It has been a real education. I don't cling blindly to any opinon. I don't mindlessly follow any 'leaders' teaching or instructions.

Hope that's the kind of feedback you are interested in - if you want to continue the discussion feel free to email me if that's easier than here - bittercode@gmail.com

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#138
post #96
post #2

Isn't it sad that this has to be said at all? "Hey, not every adherent of a religion supports killing innocent people of a different religion". It'd be like us having to apologize for the Crusades. Besides, the hits were driven by politics, religion is just a facade.

Up until a few weeks ago I used to think that religion is just a facade, but I no longer think that is true. Religion is the center of their beliefs, and a very important factor that drives their actions. When the Boston bomber says "Know you are fighting men who look into the barrel of your gun and see heaven, how can you compete with that?" he is not lying. This is what these people truly believe. They think the me…

I believe it is a bit more complex. From the point of view of the bomber this is certainly true. But there are also people using their gullibility. I have read multiple times that Isis has amongst its member ex Baathist officer from Saddam, Ba'ath party which was at least originally more secular and left-leaning. I am pretty sure that some of these people are not that into the religious aspect, except as a recruiting and propaganda tool.

The way I see it is that using the "Islam" brand is great way to have funds and international support/appeal.

In the same way, in the sixties, you had plenty of nationalist movements all over the world that were claiming to be Communist. Sure it was also the hand of Moscow at work, but for local people, that was also a great way to secure some funding/weapons/etc from USSR.

Also some of the bomber have allegedly married in Syria, possibly with children, I am not sure what would happen to their family if they defected.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#139
post #61

Isn't current Syrian government also guilty of perpetrating acts of genocide against its own populace? This person is quick to denounce the other side, but Assad's forces have killed thousands of civilians as well. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria

Better the devil you know.

The reason we (i.e. "The West") left Saddam in place until the US needed an easy target after 9/11 is that despite being a dictator and mass-murderer, his reign kept Iraq relatively stable. As soon as he was taken out of the equation other forces began to fight for dominance and now we have a huge mess on our hands that's arguably worse than where we started.

The same is true for most of the dictatorships toppled during the "Arab Spring". This is partially why Russia was against intervening in Syria from day one and why nobody seems to think Saudi Arabia or Qatar or any of the other bloody dictatorships in that region are worth disrupting.

In many cases the actual borders of these countries are pretty arbitrary and split up various ethno-religious groups (that often historically hate each others' guts) in weird ways. As soon as you tell them to self-govern and dispose of the dictators you end up with all these directly opposing interest groups suddenly being able to get at each others' throats.

It's not that Assad is a nice person or that it's more ethical to leave an evil person in place than to dispose of him, it's just that mindlessly handing out guns and expecting an oppressed people to be rational is pretty much the worst thing you can do.

Look at WW2 Germany. Sure, we got rid of Hitler, but in order to prevent Germany from blowing up again (exactly what had happened after WW1) the Allies actually had to work out long-term plans for the occupation of Germany to make sure the citizens were educated enough to understand how messed up their world view used to be and that the country was re-integrated into world economy and politics.

We need a Marshall Plan for Syria with buy-in from several major influencers. THEN we can talk about disposing of Assad.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#140

I'm living in Paris. I heard gunfire from my apartment. My heart goes out to Salah-Eddin, and all people living in the shadow of unspeakable abominations. It saddens me to imagine that simply hearing gunfire in the distance is nothing compared to what my fellow man has witnessed elsewhere. Salah-Eddin's condolences mean a lot to me and I wish him all the best. It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deploye…

> It's my sincerest hope that French troops will be deployed to Syria in the near future This kind of thinking is exactly why Mid-east is in its current state and that is exactly the reason why ISIS was born. ISIS high command mainly consists of Iraqi ex-officers, who were rendered jobless and aimless by USA's 'liberation' attempt. Al-Qaida was a result of a 'liberation' attempt by Soviets and then consequently anoth…

> This kind of thinking is exactly why Mid-east is in its current state and that is exactly the reason why ISIS was born.

ISIS was born out of the Salafist/Wahhabi ideology that the Saudi state has been exporting from the beginning of its existence. This is why terrorism is almost the exclusive domain of this one sect.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism...

As another poster said, if every disenfranchised person in the world turned to terrorism, we'd have complete and utter chaos. But most don't.

As for you argument, Mali was in the grips of an Islamist army. They aren't any more. Thanks to French intervention.

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