VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks • Hacker News Board

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#81

Post by DanBC » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:15 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

A bunch of Americans think US free speech doesn't apply to hate speech. (Although I accept that they don't want to kill you for it).

A bunch of Americans think you should be killed for being black; or gay; or trans.

A bunch of Americans don't think rape is actually rape - "s/he didn't fight back!", "s/he had a beer!"

Lots of people have wrong ideas.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#82

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:17 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #78

jacquesm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter to me what the other side of a conflict does, what matters to me is what my side of a conflict does. The fact that we don't descend to the level of our opponents gives us at least a moral edge, and it might even give us a real edge in the longer run. The moral high ground is one that you give up at your peril. Not that the Catholic church in particular has much moral high ground left but at least th…

Only my opinion but I'd rather be a survivor to discuss the finer points of morality later on than have the supposed moral edge right now prior to my dispatch.

Chances are overwhelmingly in favor of you being a survivor, media messages to the contrary.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#83

Post by sumedh » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:17 PM UTC

enesunal wrote: post #63

I'm Muslim and the problem is not about Islam. Problem is all about the people who want to gain money for themselves. I know a truth that makes sense anytime I remember; everything is related to money or sex in this world. Nothing else matters. Religion is just a tool to manage the money.

> I'm Muslim and the problem is not about Islam.

Its time to get our heads out of the sand. Religion is part of the problem whether its Islam or Christianity etc. I agree other factors play a role too.

Religion is the best tool to brainwash people.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#84

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:17 PM UTC

Eupolemos wrote: post #77

slowmotiony wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, suicide bombers shouting "Allah akhbar" is definitely political, nothing to do with religion at all.

You simply need to be more precise with your language. The terrorists desperately want this to be about religion. They want this to be about Muslims vs the rest. If they can make it that, if we in the west will believe that THAT is it, the terrorists can speak directly to all the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world and recruit from them. They will justify their horrible actions vs other Muslims with the reasoning that t…

I think both sides are painting it as religion issue on purpose. You have a point about terrorists looking for recruits. But then by calling it a religious war, the West can just assume they're crazy fanatics who won't listen to reason and doesn't have to stop and consider that the other side may have some valid concerns.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#85

Post by cygx » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:18 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #81

cygx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

A bunch of Americans think US free speech doesn't apply to hate speech. (Although I accept that they don't want to kill you for it). A bunch of Americans think you should be killed for being black; or gay; or trans. A bunch of Americans don't think rape is actually rape - "s/he didn't fight back!", "s/he had a beer!" Lots of people have wrong ideas.

Exactly. And you tell them in no unertain terms that they are wrong, instead of making excuses because "it's their culture" or because of freedom of religion.

Harmful ideologies do not get a free pass in my book just because they claim divine backing.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#86

Post by beshrkayali » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:18 PM UTC

Grue3 wrote: post #61

Isn't current Syrian government also guilty of perpetrating acts of genocide against its own populace? This person is quick to denounce the other side, but Assad's forces have killed thousands of civilians as well. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Syria

The issue now is not whether Assad has committed crimes or not, that is for Syrians to decide on imho. The problem is that any criticism of foreign regime change operations (mainly led by US gov, hypocritically in the name of democracy, spending way too much money (look up US military budget) are countered with the accusation of being pro Assad. I, for one, am anti foreign regime change and have way too many things to say about Assad. There isn't that much defense that could be said for proposing that IS is nothing but an intelligence operation that got out of hand, read Operation Cyclone.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#87

Post by DanBC » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:18 PM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #83

enesunal wrote: post #63

I'm Muslim and the problem is not about Islam. Problem is all about the people who want to gain money for themselves. I know a truth that makes sense anytime I remember; everything is related to money or sex in this world. Nothing else matters. Religion is just a tool to manage the money.

> I'm Muslim and the problem is not about Islam. Its time to get our heads out of the sand. Religion is part of the problem whether its Islam or Christianity etc. I agree other factors play a role too. Religion is the best tool to brainwash people.

Animal rights extremists don't use religion.

Right wing extremists don't use religion.

Left wing extremists didn't use religion.

Radicalisation does not need religion.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#88

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:18 PM UTC

StavrosK wrote: post #52

rmc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It'd be like us having to apologize for the Crusades. Or like Americans having to apologise for drone stikes, for Iraq and Afghanistan, and specific attacks like the MSF hospital in Kunduz.

Well, those were done by the US government, which the US populace elects, so there is a measure of responsibility.

Also, since US is a democracy, it means that the people should be able to influence this behaviour of the government, so there's some responsibility in that it did not happen.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#89

Post by jjoe » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:20 PM UTC

vog wrote: post #76

cygx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

> 40% of these think you should be killed for leaving Islam. How do these numbers compare to other religions? For example, there is an unconfortable number of Christians who do have a fundamentalist mindset, too (although I didn't find any exact numbers). Probably similar issue for other religions and possibly also among non-religious people.

What would be fair comparison is a country or region with a large Christian population that's at war or serious unrest. One country that comes to mind is Rwanda in 1994.

Re: VLC contributor living in Aleppo writing about the Paris attacks

#90

Post by iamthepieman » Tue, Nov 17, 2015, 12:20 PM UTC

cygx wrote: post #64

iamthepieman wrote: post #37

I work with a Muslim and I'm a Christian. Since we are both very conservative, I actually have more in common with him than with my secular coworkers and friends. Unfortunately we both work remotely and live several hundred miles from each other. I think we could be good friends if we lived closer. One thing I have learned talking with my Muslim coworker is that, just like in Christianity, there are many divisions an…

Of course it's not "all Muslisms". But those who claim "it's only the terrorists" or "it's all politics" do not grasp the scope of the problem, ie that globally speaking, a significant number of adherents of Islam hold ideas that are incompatible with an open society. If you naively extrapolate from the 2013 Pew Poll The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society (which in principle represents nations with a tot…

Yes it is scary. I believe that love conquers all fears. I do not make any pretense that some people in this world are truly my enemies. They want to destroy me and all I hold dear. These enemies do not love me, do not want to love me, do not want to understand me or know me or anything I stand for. Yet I must love them. Not just because I am commanded to. I do it because it is who I am. My very identity is tied up in my love for my fellow human being. I do not always or even often know how to love and I do not always want to love and when I do love, I do so imperfectly. It is this very struggle that is me. The fact that I struggle against hate - not the hate of others - the hate within myself, gives me something to push off of. A boundary to say this is me and this, this disregard, this alienation, this contempt, this selfishness is not.