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Writing English as a Second Language

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21–28 of 28 posts

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#21
post #3

As a German learning to write in English I had to constantly remind myself to keep my sentences short :)

Not to mention your words. English doesn't have nearly as ... robust a mechanism for generating compound words as German.

“Whenever the literary German dives into a sentence, that is the last you are going to see of him till he emerges on the other side of his Atlantic with his verb in his mouth.” (Mark Twain) (I am German btw)

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#22
post #20
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use punchy verbs to liven things up as occasion allows Neither Zinsser, nor Orwell (who wrote the famous essay with similar advice) say the use of such words is to be 'punchy'. I don't know where you and the angry commenter I replied to get that from. It's not advice meant to be make your prose 'punchy' but clearer and better. 'Punchy' is, frankly, dismissive. Latin words are, of course, unavoidable and necessary in…

As I recall, the warning about overuse of Latin derives from Fowler and goes through Strunk and White (might be mistaken about the latter), where I think the contrast is drawn with words that are described as being more "vivid." I stand corrected on having used "punchy" in a way that appears dismissive. I am in complete agreement with the rest of your analysis as well, including with your admiration of Mr. Zinsser. B…

Ah you're right, it's in Fowler and in fact, in the earlier (first edition 1906) The King's English. Fittingly, for something that evolved into a classic, it touches on almost all the points discussed in this thread, in one paragraph and a footnote:

http://www.bartleby.com/116/101.html#5

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell's and Shakespeare's style are both to be emulated, in the appropriate contexts.

Orwell's, more likely than Shakespeare's. The context 'Iambic pentameter blank verse play in Early Modern English' simply doesn't come up that often. Although there is the rare exception - http://www.runleiarun.com/lebowski/

That is incredible. My weekend is now officially over.

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#24
post #7

I share his stylistic preferences, but Zinsser is a prick. (How's that for simple and forceful?) He's a prick suffering from a bad case of déformation professionnelle. (Ha! That isn't even English!) To further express my disdain for his advice, I have made my response extremely long. Consider his first example: “Dear member: The board of governors has spent the past year considering proactive efforts that will contin…

The russian language has a special term set aside for this kind of round-about linguistic constructionism – "fish language". It's like the English "legalese", but with no relation to lawyers specifically.

The idea is that a fishes mouth opens and closes all the time, but all that comes out is air-bubbles.

I'm with master George Carlin on this one, "simple, direct language" is appropriate everywhere there isn't a justified need for domain-specific terminology to be used.

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#25
post #24
post #7

I share his stylistic preferences, but Zinsser is a prick. (How's that for simple and forceful?) He's a prick suffering from a bad case of déformation professionnelle. (Ha! That isn't even English!) To further express my disdain for his advice, I have made my response extremely long. Consider his first example: “Dear member: The board of governors has spent the past year considering proactive efforts that will contin…

The russian language has a special term set aside for this kind of round-about linguistic constructionism – "fish language". It's like the English "legalese", but with no relation to lawyers specifically. The idea is that a fishes mouth opens and closes all the time, but all that comes out is air-bubbles. I'm with master George Carlin on this one, "simple, direct language" is appropriate everywhere there isn't a just…

> The russian language has a special term set aside for this kind of round-about linguistic constructionism – "fish language". It's like the English "legalese", but with no relation to lawyers specifically.

You talking about "Канцелярит" (kantceliaryt?). "Канцелярия" means "office". Suffix "ит" here means language or disease. So "канцелярит" means "official language/disease". See http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B5%... http://zhivoeslovo.ru/content/view/85/143/

"Fish" (рыба) - is template or form: you need just to fill gaps between prewritten sentences. It looks like "fish bones".

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#26
post #3

As a German learning to write in English I had to constantly remind myself to keep my sentences short :)

Not to mention your words. English doesn't have nearly as ... robust a mechanism for generating compound words as German.

It has. Common prefix(es) + common (Latin) root(s) + common suffix(es).

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#27
after her first example i'm wondering if i should read the rest of the article:

""" Here’s a typical sentence: “Prior to the implementation of the financial enhancement.” That means “Before we fixed our money problems.” """

"fixed", "money" and "problems" are -- afaik -- what she calls latin words...

oooops!

Re: Writing English as a Second Language

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The russian language has a special term set aside for this kind of round-about linguistic constructionism – "fish language". It's like the English "legalese", but with no relation to lawyers specifically. The idea is that a fishes mouth opens and closes all the time, but all that comes out is air-bubbles. I'm with master George Carlin on this one, "simple, direct language" is appropriate everywhere there isn't a just…

> The russian language has a special term set aside for this kind of round-about linguistic constructionism – "fish language". It's like the English "legalese", but with no relation to lawyers specifically. You talking about "Канцелярит" (kantceliaryt?). "Канцелярия" means "office". Suffix "ит" here means language or disease. So "канцелярит" means "official language/disease". See http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D…

Нет, я про "рыбий язык". "Канцелярит" мне что-то из иврита уже навевает, наверное, все же.

(No.)

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