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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#481

Post by littletimmy »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #440
littletimmy wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel = nation state. Jews = ethno-religious group. Completely different.

Distinct concepts? Sure. But completely different is an exaggeration. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_and_Democratic_State

Look, I'm sure Israel wants to be a jewish state, just like Pakistan wants to be an Islamic state and some people want the US to be a Christian state. That doesn't mean much except politics. The fact of the matter is that nation states are very different beasts from ethno-religious groups.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#482

Post by johncolanduoni »

davesque wrote: post #395
deciplex wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The moderation in this thread has been supremely disappointing. Your post contained no slurs, only an interpretation of data along with a link.

No. What dang quoted was a slur. Definition from http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_eng... : "An insinuation or allegation about someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation" Saying that "Islam soils the reputation of islam" is a slur by any reasonable interpretation. The link provided some information but the first sentence did nothing to that effect and was simply inflammat…

If that's you criterion for a piece of discourse unsuitable for HN, then that applies to pretty much anything negative you say on any topic, does it not? For example, the post about CMU's possible involvement with exploiting a weakness in Tor on unsuspecting users was itself a "slur" by Oxford's definition.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#483

Post by deciplex »

davesque wrote: post #459
deciplex wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a mere insinuation, this was a claim made along with some study linked in support of the claim. And since the topic at hand is precisely Islam's reputation in the first place, it seems we can't have any conversation about Islam's reputation for violence (deserved or not), and what to do about it, at all. If your goal is to integrate Muslims living in Western nations into Western society, what is going on…

The OP began by saying "Islam soils the reputation of islam. It has a massive problem of large percentages of Muslims supporting (or being okay with) violence and terrorism." Without further proof, that statement is an allegation at best and a slur at worst (especially if the following proof doesn't hold up). He then went on to say "42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall)."…

I'd be in agreement with you if the OP started and stopped with that first sentence, but he didn't. And OP is not claiming that all Muslims are violent or making a generalization like that - he very specifically referred to reputation for same and cited a document showing a significant minority of Muslims who support or tolerate violence, especially in France.

I also agree that he would have been better served to clarify in his post that the problem is particularly acute in France rather than in general, but even a cursory glance at the document he provided will bear that out. However that is something to bring up in further discussion (as I have actually done in a sibling comment). Then you can have a conversation about what France is doing differently from other countries that are having relative success, even to the point of e.g. the US where Muslims tend to be more peaceful than the wider population.

But when you just shut down the discussion as was done here, none of that can happen. That's why, as I say, if your goal is to integrate Muslims living in the West into Western society (and French Muslims into French society), then what happened here is counterproductive.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#484

Post by saryant »

theseatoms wrote: post #360
NickNameNick wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People expressing something (sympathy, judgement, whatever) are crowding out the messages of people trying to co-ordinate requests for support and offers of support. It's cool that the twitter user in Australia has a message of sympathy. But if you urgently need a safe place to stay in Paris, and you can't find the people making that offer, in a place meant for that offer, because the non-parisians are making too muc…

Ah. I misread OP's comment. Yeah, that's bad situation.

The feature isn't easy to find but you can limit a hashtag search to tweets near you. On the results page, click on "More Options" and select "Near You."

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#485

Post by onion2k »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #238
darkr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends if the French are as disposed to shooting each other as Americans are. Over 10,000 Americans are killed by gun violence every year. This is excluding ~19,000 firearm suicides. Since 9/11, the number of U.S. citizens killed in terrorist attacks each year has never surpassed 75.

According to bjs.gov (Bureau of Justice Statistics), it's been around 11-12,000 gun homicides in recent years, down from around 16,000 a few years ago. Over half of those are black-on-black shootings, mainly gang related. If you control for these gangland shootings, the per capita rate in the U.S. is about the same as Western Europe and Canada. The U.S. has a socio-economic problem in the ghetto areas, not a gun prob…

So citizens carrying guns doesn't stop, or even reduce, the level of crime. The only impact on society is gang warfare and more effective suicides. That sounds like good evidence to ban guns to me - the benefit (fewer deaths) would far outweigh the cost (freedom to own a gun that evidently doesn't protect you from crime).

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#486

Post by pknerd »

I am as saddened as on Paris shootings and killing of innocents like I'm shooting and killing of thousands of Muslims in Syria, Palestine, Iraq and Kashmir.

I hope Western Society/Media or elsewhere will not bring faith factor in discussion just like they don't bring it up during US shootings or killing in Palestine or elsewhere.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#487

Post by TeMPOraL »

eva1984 wrote: post #470
TeMPOraL wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War on Terror is causing the cancer.

So just give up and offer your good will???

Yes. Treat terror attacks as any other act of organized crime. It's stupid to do otherwise, given that the very point of terrorism is to make you do anything else.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#488

Post by rihegher »

AlexB138 wrote: post #72
cm2187 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France cannot really control the wave of migrants anyway. But it is unlikely that the terrorists are one of these migrants. My guess is that they were French nationals/residents.

>My guess is that they were French nationals/residents. Based on what? I'm pretty uninformed here, and it seems like a lot of people are bringing up refugees. Curious why you think the opposite.

At least they speaks french according to witnesses http://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/131115/paris-frappe-p...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#489

Post by apetresc »

AlexB138 wrote: post #72
cm2187 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France cannot really control the wave of migrants anyway. But it is unlikely that the terrorists are one of these migrants. My guess is that they were French nationals/residents.

>My guess is that they were French nationals/residents. Based on what? I'm pretty uninformed here, and it seems like a lot of people are bringing up refugees. Curious why you think the opposite.

There were eyewitness reports that the gunmen were talking to each other in French. So, that's something. If they were recently-arrived refugees that probably wouldn't be the case, though it doesn't rule out long-term embedded groups.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#490

Post by dingaling »

clock_tower wrote: post #308
usaphp wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you mentioned has no explanation of where he got those figures, as far as I know there is no official data on this and estimates range from 3Mln to 60Mln [1], which as you can see is quite bizarre estimate. According to official documents there were 799,455 people executed in a period from 1921 to 1953 [2] and keep in mind that's a total number of execution, not only those that were executed for political…

It looks like you're not quite as naive as you'd sounded at first... Remember, Stalin didn't go in for executions; he preferred slave labor. Deaths in the GULAG -- which could be as high as in the non-death-camp Nazi concentration camps, or higher -- should be counted as well as executions. (Remember how part of Stalin's price for peace with Japan was 300,000 Japanese slaves, none of whom ever returned to Japan after…

> Remember how part of Stalin's price for peace with Japan was 300,000 Japanese slaves, none of whom ever returned to Japan after the war.

Most of those Japanese POWs who survived the winter of 1945 / 46 had been repatriated by 1956, with mediation by the Red Cross.

Furthermore:

In 2005, the Russian government provided the Japanese Ministry of Health and Welfare microfilms of personal information of 40,940 Japanese POWs who had died during their detention.

Still horrific but less than 10% of the total number.

There is a fascinating history of those who returned to Japan but couldn't fit-in again due to Soviet indoctrination.

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