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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#471

Post by ehnto »

peferron wrote: post #364
Asbostos wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't need Facebook to tell you that. You could have just assumed it was true based on the enormous population of Paris (2 million) and the small number of deaths in this incident (100-200).

You would have 0.01% chance of being wrong. How high would it need to be to warrant, in your eyes, checking if your family members are alive, instead of assuming they are? 0.1%? 1%? 10%? And why?

The world is full of a mean average of people who, believe it or not, do not run statistical analysis before deciding if they should care for their loved ones.

The world is full of real people, with real understandable concerns for their families and friends.

Not only that, but it isn't about the number who were killed anyway. It is about the probability of your friend being in that location at the time of the disaster which is much, much higher.

No one thinks 'I wonder if Jack was killed, he was at that park today'. They think 'I wonder if Jack was in the CBD, he works nearby!'

Statistically validated concerns or not, the very real effect of this part of human nature is that the phone infrastructure goes down and that sucks for everyone.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#472

Post by abalashov »

clock_tower wrote: post #256
RogtamBar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is bullshit and you know this. There is very little chance of anyone successfully getting up to terrorism if society is a) riddled with informers b) detaining people without charges is legal c) totalitarian ideology and political supremacy makes the establishment of parallel societies impossible. Border controls make importing terrorists next to impossible. The former eastern Bloc had no terrorist incidents. Pul…

The Eastern Bloc had plenty of terrorism, as well as organized crime -- who do you think was supplying all those black markets? Being a police state is one thing; being an _effective_ police state is something else, much harder (at least in the pre-computer era). In the Soviet case, it didn't help that they didn't really care much about crime...

Former Soviet national here...

In the Soviet case, it didn't help that they didn't really care much about crime...

What gives you that idea?

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#473

Post by InclinedPlane »

vonnik wrote: post #108
jmspring wrote: post #13

The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.

It's really important to understand the Muslim community in France, and not evoke false connections. We don't know if the attackers had anything to with the flux of Syrian migrants moving across Europe now, but my guess would be: they had nothing to do with it. There are about 5 million Muslims in France, which accounts for about 7 percent of France's total population. France has deep, long-standing and often trouble…

A correction: France has always been a member of NATO, they withdrew from integrated military command for several decades though.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#474

Post by intopieces »

zaroth wrote: post #316
intopieces wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2014, net imports accounted for 27% of the petroleum consumed in the United States. 37% of that comes from Canada, followed by 13% from Saudi Arabia. [0] Our dependence on foreign oil is no longer an excuse for our meddling in the Middle East. [0] http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

I think our significantly decreasing reliance on foreign energy has put the writing on the wall. Middle East countries used to pushing hundreds of billions in oil welfare and running surpluses will be in serious deficit and facing a decimated budget which will tank their economies. Perhaps the thinking is to revolt now before the money is all gone? With such a strikingly oil-centric economy, oil crashed from its high…

Whether you believe it personally or not, the US involvement in the Middle East - namely, support for Israel, funding of the Saudi regime since 1945 and the arming of Wahhabis during the first gulf war - is the reason ISIS and similar groups have flourished.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#475

Post by JadeNB »

electromage wrote: post #19
toyg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reworded to avoid offence (hopefully): deaths are not irrelevant, but their exact precise number is irrelevant. What matters is the scale of the security failure, compounded by the fact that they suffered a similar one less than a year ago and they were currently on high-alert (because they've only just started bombing Syria). The knowledge that a network could carry out such a widespread and well-coordinated attack…

It's relevant to the families and friends of those killed.

Why? Is the death of a loved one any more, or less, tragic because it is one among a hundred?

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#476

Post by firebones »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #422
q3k wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am afraid. Seriously. This is exactly what the attackers want you to be. Don't let them win.

Thanks. My stay in Asia was extended 'till the end of this month. One of the things that bounce in my head now is - what Europe will I come back to?

If my 9/11 experience is a guide, then you will have months of overreacting to everything...from the sick feeling in your gut when you see a clear blue sky with no contrails in it like I did that fateful Tuesday, to the moment of doubt when you take your mail out of the mailbox after the Anthrax attack.

It goes away and you realize that the equilibrium in a civil society is normalcy, and to give in to fear is to lose. Recency bias, forgetting your math/probability/statistics--you're smarter than that. Lead the way for others to keep calm and carry on.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#477

Post by saryant »

the_french wrote: post #211
gotchange wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about airports? I'm very positive that they check people's passports and papers in airports.

The vast majority of European travellers use trains or roads, not air travel.

Actually, air travel is the most common mode of transport in intra-EU travel.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/...

Trains are a tiny 6%.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#479

Post by gozo »

001sky wrote: post #450
gozo wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has nothing to do with the definition of terrorism. Groups who do targeted attacks of sabotage that rarely kill people are also considered terrorists. For example the Earth Liberation Front is regarded as terrorists by the US. https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/dt https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2009/september/domterror_09...

Terrorism is anti civillian warfare. Planting sabatoge devices that kill and maim innocent people is actually terrorism/ Is it just not as effective because it maims more than it it kills? I don't get it with these pedantic aruments. eg lets say we load a bunch of shrapnel into a tree so it maims or permanenly injures whoever the next logger is...tha is basically the same thing as lobbing hand grenades into the publi…

Yes, the murder of Litvinenko is considered state terrorism by those who can afford to say so. Its not considered random at all. They very publicly killed someone who was an outspoken opponent of theirs. KGB has a long history of both state terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism.

> THE senior British official was unequivocal. The murder of the former KGB man Alexander Litvinenko was "undeniably state-sponsored terrorism on Moscow's part. That is the view at the highest levels of the British government".

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/article6...

You might think that some forms of terrorism are worse than others, but that doesn't mean that those are the only forms of terrorism.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#480

Post by littletimmy »

eva1984 wrote: post #470
TeMPOraL wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War on Terror is causing the cancer.

So just give up and offer your good will???

To be clear, "giving up" here means stop screwing with other countries. Yes, that's an outstanding strategy. While you're at it, also stop supporting terrorist regimes like Saudi Arabia.
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