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Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#111

Post by noobermin »

lmz wrote: post #73
slantedview wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, though many of those who are inspired to take up arms against innocent people have no such legitimate grievance.

What if your ideology believes that you should treat those killed by drones as your own family because you share the same ideology?

Did the people who they bombed operate drones? AFAIK, france doesn't conduct drone warfare.

It could be, I suppose, that someone could simply hate western culture due to the acts of one nation, but that doesn't make it right. If you hate all Muslims because of the acts of few, you're most likely in the wrong. The same morality should apply to the people on the other side.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#112

Post by rangibaby »

chinathrow wrote: post #15
toyg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reworded to avoid offence (hopefully): deaths are not irrelevant, but their exact precise number is irrelevant. What matters is the scale of the security failure, compounded by the fact that they suffered a similar one less than a year ago and they were currently on high-alert (because they've only just started bombing Syria). The knowledge that a network could carry out such a widespread and well-coordinated attack…

No, the number of innocent killed people is never irrelevant. Every single dead person is one dead person too much. Full stop. Edit: no need to further downvote as parent has changed his statement. Thanks parent poster.

This kind of thinking led to the War on Terror, which led to a rise in extreme Islam which led to...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#113

Post by gedy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #57
zxcvcxz wrote: post #40

I've seen a lot of HNers suggesting that we must over react and ramp up the war on terrorism. I'm all for cutting off immigration, but how will ramping up the wars do us any good? I don't see how another ten years "fixing" things is going to work.

It won't; a lot of people are radicalising just because of the 'war on terror'. As I said in another comment, what would you do if your family was bombed in a drone strike?

ISIS has a very fundamentalist view of the end of the world from their reading of the Koran, and are trying to hasten the "final battle". This belief was not "caused" by the war on terror or frustration with the west, though it does align with what they expect to happen.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#114

Post by stefantalpalaru »

RogtamBar wrote: post #84
dragonwriter wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can a country possibly prevent these things while still maintaining a free society? You can't even prevent them when not being a free society. Its not like terrorism only occurs in free societies.

This is bullshit and you know this. There is very little chance of anyone successfully getting up to terrorism if society is a) riddled with informers b) detaining people without charges is legal c) totalitarian ideology and political supremacy makes the establishment of parallel societies impossible. Border controls make importing terrorists next to impossible. The former eastern Bloc had no terrorist incidents. Pul…

> The former eastern Bloc had no terrorist incidents.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorism_in_the_Sovi...

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#115

Post by mikeash »

marbletiles wrote: post #104
mikeash wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we at least wait until people start saying these things before we complain? I'm getting tired of seeing a bunch of comments complaining about other people supposedly making arguments of which I see no trace.

There are people making that argument literally in this thread. They're not saying "Muslims" but they're using terms like "culture" as signifiers.

Go reply to them, then. Don't add to the clutter by repeating their arguments as a straw man.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#116

Post by tonfa »

roadbeats wrote: post #88
saryant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true, France does have refugee camps.

I volunteered two different refugee camp constructions in Syrian border and I know the difference between a refugee camp and a homeless camp clearly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calais_jungle

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#117

Post by aplummer »

iMark wrote: post #91
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I could keep a motivation like that if, for example, my family was killed by a drone strike.

I'd try - seriously. I don't know who came up with "an eye-for-eye and tooth-for-tooth would lead to a world of the blind and toothless" but I believe it. I'm sure it's something I'd struggle with when the hard choice arises, but I honestly believe I'd try to keep to it.

Yea but you weren't born with these ideas, you can't know how you'd be if you grew up in a different context.

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#118

Post by Fluid_Mechanics »

djfm wrote: post #76

I live in Paris and was spending the night in the middle of the hot zone. I was a few hundred meters from the Bataclan but fortunately the area I was in was spared. I tried to get a Uber but they were unavailable, "State of emergency, please stay home", the app said. I took a city bike home, rode about 10kms and barely saw anyone in the streets all the way home. It was really, really weird. I'm awfully sad that peopl…

If we didn't need to secure their oil by supporting/deposing despots in the region, and didn't want to provide the Israelis with military/political/financial support then we would not be dealing with any of this carnage.

Their attempts to fight back will only escalate the situation, and the carnage will continue.

Edit: I'm not advocating that we not support Israel. I'm simply stating a hard truth regarding "why they hate us".

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#119

Post by gotchange »

jules wrote: post #62
gotchange wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that France didn't open its borders to this wave of refugees/migrants but I could be mistaken since I don't follow the news this closely.

What do you mean by that? The border between France and neighboring nations is always open.

It's open but that doesn't mean that everyone who shows up at the gate will be allowed in, right?

Re: Paris Shootings and Explosions Kill Over 100, Police Say

#120

Post by 13thLetter »

Fluid_Mechanics wrote: post #118
djfm wrote: post #76

I live in Paris and was spending the night in the middle of the hot zone. I was a few hundred meters from the Bataclan but fortunately the area I was in was spared. I tried to get a Uber but they were unavailable, "State of emergency, please stay home", the app said. I took a city bike home, rode about 10kms and barely saw anyone in the streets all the way home. It was really, really weird. I'm awfully sad that peopl…

If we didn't need to secure their oil by supporting/deposing despots in the region, and didn't want to provide the Israelis with military/political/financial support then we would not be dealing with any of this carnage. Their attempts to fight back will only escalate the situation, and the carnage will continue. Edit: I'm not advocating that we not support Israel. I'm simply stating a hard truth regarding "why they…

Maaaaaaaybe wait until the bodies have cooled before you start searching for a way to blame the Jews? :(
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