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Living and Dying on Airbnb

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Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#21

Post by rdancer »

jimjimjam wrote: post #7
jzwinck wrote: post #4

It is horrible what happened to the author's father. But it is also inevitable. Like a morbid million monkeys mashing away on keyboards, operating at scale in meatspace all but guarantees that someone will die whilst using the service. In America we have become accustomed to guard rails everywhere, and signs announcing the smallest hazards. This is OK so far as it goes, but perhaps it makes us a bit soft. Here we rea…

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluating very basic things like working fire alarms, interior mold, bed bugs, etc. I agree that this was something of a freak accident, but that doesn't invalidate the central argument that Airbnb has no real way to ensure even the most basic level of safety of its…

> freak accident

No, it wasn't. What is more likely: that the tree became structurally unsound overnight, or that it had been like that for a long time, and an inspection had ever been carried out?

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#22

Post by arg-summarizer »

jimjimjam wrote: post #20
jzwinck wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people travel to places outside the US where none of these things can be taken for granted. I think most of them are sane humans. In 2013 two people died in a Best Western hotel (in the US) due to an improperly and illegally installed water heater. Seven weeks after that, one more person was killed in the exact same way, in the very same room. [1] Are you sure conventional hotels "ensure" safety? [1] http://w…

If you really believe the average Airbnb listing is safer than the average hotel room...then you are certainly not a sane human being. But I too would love to see some objective stats from Airbnb on the number and nature of inbound tickets related to serious safety issues from guests. I doubt we will ever see anything like it.

1. I disagree with you, but will provide no argument. 2. I believe that staying in a suite posted on Airbnb is riskier than staying in a hotel room, but again will provide no argument.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#23

Post by rdancer »

codinghorror wrote: post #9

Terrible tragedy. I can definitely see the argument that Airbnb hosts should carry insurance for freak accidents / deaths that occur on their property in cases like this.

It looks more like criminal negligence. Insurance is for things that cannot be foreseen or prevented. This looks more like a case of a missed inspection.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#24

Post by mik3y »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13
jimjimjam wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the hosts should assume all liability and pay for cost of freak accident insurance...of course not Airbnb!

Does a newspaper bear responsibility for classifieds they post?

Probably not much, but it's a silly comparison since newspaper classifieds do not work the same way: It surely helps that the newspaper is not managing the inventory, payment processing, photography, and customer relations on behalf of their sellers.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#25

Post by TeMPOraL »

jimjimjam wrote: post #16
TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a newspaper bear responsibility for classifieds they post?

If you're talking about Craigslist...they have a far better warning and flagging system than Airbnb does. I.e. If you try to buy a car they warn you about possible scams before you can look at the listings. Airbnb certainly does not do enough to proactively warn potential guests that they cannot vet the safety of any unit listed on their website.

Ok. Fair enough.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#26

Post by empressplay »

BurningFrog wrote: post #19
jimjimjam wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

I have never heard or expected that hotels are especially safe.

If the argument is that _everything_ is inherently caveat emptor and that in many jurisdictions there are no / inefficient regulations and yet people seem to get along "fine" then why regulate anything at all? Open slather! Everything's "at your own risk".

If so, we should all get used to conducting our own safety tests on everything we buy and everywhere we stay? Although, that would be pretty damn inconvenient, wouldn't it? Day-in, day-out, inspecting everywhere we stay, every vehicle we ride in, all the food we eat... and the restaurants we eat them in...

Maybe there's a solution. Perhaps we could hire people to do those inspections for us, and since those inspections would inform everyone, we can communally pay for it with taxes? These people would certify whether something was safe, and ensure everything that was for sale / rent was certified to meet some minimum standard (because of course, otherwise some unscrupulous people might be inclined to lie about being certified.)

Problem solved! I'm a genius. Oh, wait a minute...

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#27

Post by function_seven »

rdancer wrote: post #21
jimjimjam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluating very basic things like working fire alarms, interior mold, bed bugs, etc. I agree that this was something of a freak accident, but that doesn't invalidate the central argument that Airbnb has no real way to ensure even the most basic level of safety of its…

> freak accident No, it wasn't. What is more likely: that the tree became structurally unsound overnight, or that it had been like that for a long time, and an inspection had ever been carried out?

Way more likely that no inspection has ever been carried out.

But the freak-nature of this accident still stands. 100,000 people could go find their nearest (un-inspected) tire swing right now and have at it. Maybe 500 would break at that moment. 450 of those would end up in a slight bruise on the ass, another 49 with a broken bone, and one poor soul would die from it.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#30

Post by asuffield »

jimjimjam wrote: post #15
bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

I think the primary answer to your question is "because that's exactly the same as the situation in their own home where they live for most of the year".

Is your home inspected and polished to the level of a hotel? If not, why is your concern the one week you spend in a flat that airbnb is connected with?

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