Living and Dying on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#11

Post by bmmayer1 » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:26 AM UTC

jimjimjam wrote: post #7

jzwinck wrote: post #4

It is horrible what happened to the author's father. But it is also inevitable. Like a morbid million monkeys mashing away on keyboards, operating at scale in meatspace all but guarantees that someone will die whilst using the service. In America we have become accustomed to guard rails everywhere, and signs announcing the smallest hazards. This is OK so far as it goes, but perhaps it makes us a bit soft. Here we rea…

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluating very basic things like working fire alarms, interior mold, bed bugs, etc. I agree that this was something of a freak accident, but that doesn't invalidate the central argument that Airbnb has no real way to ensure even the most basic level of safety of its…

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#12

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:27 AM UTC

reviseddamage wrote: post #5

jzwinck wrote: post #4

It is horrible what happened to the author's father. But it is also inevitable. Like a morbid million monkeys mashing away on keyboards, operating at scale in meatspace all but guarantees that someone will die whilst using the service. In America we have become accustomed to guard rails everywhere, and signs announcing the smallest hazards. This is OK so far as it goes, but perhaps it makes us a bit soft. Here we rea…

could i have resumed your post with "shit happens, sad though." ?

IMO yes, and it would have been a perfectly correct way of putting it, but people are... sensitive about truths like this one, hence the need of an elongated, delicate approach.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#13

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:29 AM UTC

jimjimjam wrote: post #10

codinghorror wrote: post #9

Terrible tragedy. I can definitely see the argument that Airbnb hosts should carry insurance for freak accidents / deaths that occur on their property in cases like this.

Yeah the hosts should assume all liability and pay for cost of freak accident insurance...of course not Airbnb!

Does a newspaper bear responsibility for classifieds they post?

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#14

Post by omarforgotpwd » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:33 AM UTC

codinghorror wrote: post #9

Terrible tragedy. I can definitely see the argument that Airbnb hosts should carry insurance for freak accidents / deaths that occur on their property in cases like this.

AirBnB should sell insurance that covers common issues hosts have, or partner with insurance providers, or adjust their % cut a bit and include this insurance for 100% of bookings

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#15

Post by jimjimjam » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:35 AM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

jimjimjam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Airbnb does not assume any responsibility when it comes to inspecting the "soundness" of a listed unit, including any means of evaluating very basic things like working fire alarms, interior mold, bed bugs, etc. I agree that this was something of a freak accident, but that doesn't invalidate the central argument that Airbnb has no real way to ensure even the most basic level of safety of its…

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of?

I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#16

Post by jimjimjam » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:41 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #13

jimjimjam wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the hosts should assume all liability and pay for cost of freak accident insurance...of course not Airbnb!

Does a newspaper bear responsibility for classifieds they post?

If you're talking about Craigslist...they have a far better warning and flagging system than Airbnb does.

I.e. If you try to buy a car they warn you about possible scams before you can look at the listings. Airbnb certainly does not do enough to proactively warn potential guests that they cannot vet the safety of any unit listed on their website.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#17

Post by _delirium » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:46 AM UTC

cwilkes wrote: post #6

Thanks for posting, it was a interesting, and heartbreaking, read. An AirBnB mission statement of sorts: We also stopped trusting each other. And in doing so, we lost something essential about what it means to be a community. After all, our relationships with people I literally threw up in my mouth when reading that. Your company makes money by renting out rooms by skirting hotel laws and you're wrapping yourself in…

There's a bit of both going on: AirBnB is used by regular people renting out a spare room of a house or apartment they occupy, which sometimes has a vaguely couchsurfing-but-not-free feel to it. But it's also used by fly-by-night hoteliers running illegal hotels and hostels. And lately, it's also used by legal vacation-rental brokers as a competitor to VRBO/Homeaway/etc.

The marketing materials obviously prefer to emphasize the first, but the second category does a lot of volume (the percentage seems to vary heavily by city). What's most annoying as an occasional user is that it's sometimes very difficult to determine which is which: is this someone's spare room (may actually lead to friendly personal interaction, probably won't cause significant problems for the neighbors), is it one of 50 "spare rooms" that this person is operating as a black-market business (impersonal, likely to be contributing to neighborhood social problems), or is it a VRBO-type rental unit just cross-listed on multiple sites' inventory (impersonal, but at least probably legit)? You can sometimes guess by looking at their other listings, but some people split their operation across a bunch of accounts.

AirBnB could probably make life harder for people running the larger-scale operations if they wanted to, emphasizing the site's focus on lodging rented out by regular people, which could bring the site a bit more in line with the marketing copy. But I don't think that's the likely trajectory.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#18

Post by jzwinck » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:47 AM UTC

jimjimjam wrote: post #15

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

Lots of people travel to places outside the US where none of these things can be taken for granted. I think most of them are sane humans.

In 2013 two people died in a Best Western hotel (in the US) due to an improperly and illegally installed water heater. Seven weeks after that, one more person was killed in the exact same way, in the very same room. [1]

Are you sure conventional hotels "ensure" safety?

[1] http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/special-reports/nc-med...

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#19

Post by BurningFrog » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:50 AM UTC

jimjimjam wrote: post #15

bmmayer1 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't. That's why they don't assume any responsibility for it.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

I have never heard or expected that hotels are especially safe.

Re: Living and Dying on Airbnb

#20

Post by jimjimjam » Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 6:59 AM UTC

jzwinck wrote: post #18

jimjimjam wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this begs the question...why would any sane human being decide to risk staying at a home with no safety record or proof of fire/mold/bed bug inspection to speak of? I think potential guests need to be more aware that renting an Airbnb is nothing like booking a hotel subject to rigorous safety standard governed by law. Part of the purpose of this story is to point that out.

Lots of people travel to places outside the US where none of these things can be taken for granted. I think most of them are sane humans. In 2013 two people died in a Best Western hotel (in the US) due to an improperly and illegally installed water heater. Seven weeks after that, one more person was killed in the exact same way, in the very same room. [1] Are you sure conventional hotels "ensure" safety? [1] http://w…

If you really believe the average Airbnb listing is safer than the average hotel room...then you are certainly not a sane human being.

But I too would love to see some objective stats from Airbnb on the number and nature of inbound tickets related to serious safety issues from guests. I doubt we will ever see anything like it.