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Ageism is becoming an issue for me

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31–40 of 72 posts

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#31
"Bring up ageism and out comes it comes -- it's the one insult that's considered socially acceptable."

That and politics. I'm absolutely amazed at the hateful language that friends and talking heads use for people who are "differently politicized."

As for me, I "knew" I was old and irrelevant (or seen as such) the day I answered a telephone poll for local radio stations. The first question was my age, and the next statement was "Thank you for your time ."

I was guilty when I was young. The tables have turned, and I try not to let it bother me now, although it sometimes does.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#32
post #27
post #14

Ageism is a fact of life and, if you are too young to have felt it yet, wait until you turn 50 (as I did a few years back) - no matter what you do, people type you, they just don't see you in quite the same light as before. I think this is in part because, as people, we are associational. We inherently relate to what we know. Similis simili gaudet ("like in like rejoices") is the Latin maxim that captures this. And y…

Your post reads biased against younger people. I find that the young suffer as much if not more prejudice than those older who are generally more often in position of power. The young are more likely to just accept it because their entire life, they have been influenced to accept it. "Respect your elders"

The first half of life's continuum tends to be viewed by those going through it as "up" (so to speak) and the second half as "down," with an inevitable midlife adjustment (crisis, in extreme cases) in between.

This may be half-addled philosophy, or it may be common sense, but I think it is fair to generalize about people in this sort of way and about how this might color their perceptions of age and youth. On the "youth" side of this, you do get a tendency to say, "the world is ours and we can conquer it" in every generation and this tends to lead to a brushing off of those who are not in the same position. Call it what you will and, if "arrogance" is too strong, pick your own word. It is not meant to come across as biased. Bias, I think, manifests itself not when we try to make observations about what we see as attributes of age or youth but rather when we treat the individuals we interact with according to type and not based on their individual worth.

Your point about young people often being unfairly discriminated against is well taken - all too true and essentially the flip side of the ageist coin. The lesson is to treat people fairly as individuals and not arbitrarily according to type.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#33
post #9

Inside I think of myself as young. If you really did, then you wouldn't have even written this post. Like Dave Winer, I am also 54 and absolutely do not care what anyone else thinks about it. When I first started out I quickly rose through the enterprise ranks and was never taken seriously because of my age. As a wimpy looking nerd, I had always been underestimated by others and I found a way to use that to my advant…

> To me it's odd that someone as accomplished as Dave Winer doesn't feel the same way. Then again, maybe it's just state of mind

Keep in mind that Winer doesn't seem to be talking about ageism that's directly aimed at him. His examples are public figures and general cultural attitudes.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#34
When I was younger, I also was discriminated against for being too young. In ANY profession, some one that has spent 10-30 years doing something in an inefficient and incorrect way doesn't like to be told so from a young upstart who figures it out the first week on the job (or in class).

I think there is plenty of pain to go around caused by the inefficiencies of cultural divides.

Advice: go where you are needed and appreciated.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#35

"Bring up ageism and out comes it comes -- it's the one insult that's considered socially acceptable." That and politics. I'm absolutely amazed at the hateful language that friends and talking heads use for people who are "differently politicized." As for me, I "knew" I was old and irrelevant (or seen as such) the day I answered a telephone poll for local radio stations. The first question was my age, and the next st…

> "Bring up ageism and out comes it comes -- it's the one insult that's considered socially acceptable."

> That and politics

and weight, and attractiveness, and "white trash" / rednecks, and ...

Not to mention that there's still an awful lot of racism and sexism around. Just look at how much TV comedy is built almost entirely on gender stereotypes.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#36

There's a reason people are more comfortable about insulting people based on age: everyone either has been or will be a member of the class they're criticizing. People who want to complain about a group without getting in trouble seem to often try to position themselves as part of or close to the group before complaining about the group. "My girlfriend or wife is [group], and I can tell you..." "I was in a gang when…

"There's a reason people are more comfortable about insulting people based on age: everyone either has been or will be a member of the class they're criticizing. "

Just the opposite: most people can't really see themselves as old, and like to think that as they age they'll still somehow stay cool and hip and up-to-date, not like those creepy Readers Digest AARP people.

I've yet to meet anyone who didn't say, Wow I can't believe I'm(40|50|60|...).

You realize, intellectually, that it will happen, but it never seems quite real until you are there.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#37
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What types of companies were you interviewing at? I've really never seen anything but ageism in the favor of younger people.

This may happen when the interviewer is younger than you -- young inexperienced managers are often underconfident and they just don't feel comfortable interviewing people older and more experienced than themselves. I started hiring people when I was 26 (now 37), and I can tell from my own experience than my first attempts of interviewing people older than myself were quite uncomfortable -- so it's not surprising that…

I've honestly see people directly state the bias when filtering resumes: Old engineers are usually BAD. The company I heard that at was only 4 people so the age discrimination law probably doesn't even apply, but I was flabbergasted to see someone literally say something like that.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#38
post #9

Inside I think of myself as young. If you really did, then you wouldn't have even written this post. Like Dave Winer, I am also 54 and absolutely do not care what anyone else thinks about it. When I first started out I quickly rose through the enterprise ranks and was never taken seriously because of my age. As a wimpy looking nerd, I had always been underestimated by others and I found a way to use that to my advant…

Like Dave Winer, I am also 54 and absolutely do not care what anyone else thinks about it. Perhaps that explains why you are also less likely to perceive it when it happens. Perhaps Dave Winer is more sensitive to this issue and that explains why he notices it more. I doubt that he is imagining this since you are one of the few people in IT that I have heard having a contrary experience. Perhaps you are simply an out…

I am guessing it could have a lot to do with the fact that Dave Winer is known to be a bit of a crank! He's historically gotten into a lot of ugly arguments, regardless of his age.

It seems crazy to me now, but I worried most about ageism when I was around 38. I had just started a job in the Bay Area where almost everybody else was in their early twenties. To the extent that there was a problem, it was all in my head.

I am now 46, I have a much better perspective on it, and I don't think about it at all. I suppose it is possible that I have been discriminated against during job searches, but I've got plenty of more important things to worry about.

Re: Ageism is becoming an issue for me

#40
post #9

Inside I think of myself as young. If you really did, then you wouldn't have even written this post. Like Dave Winer, I am also 54 and absolutely do not care what anyone else thinks about it. When I first started out I quickly rose through the enterprise ranks and was never taken seriously because of my age. As a wimpy looking nerd, I had always been underestimated by others and I found a way to use that to my advant…

>"I think being in IT and in my 50's is a tremendous advantage."

I believe you, but can't help but wonder if you find that potential employers see it this way as well?

Some companies (Facebook comes to mind..) are reluctant to even hire people in their 30s, as they are not as receptive to "free pizza/code till 10pm" working style. Once you've reached the kids & mortgage stage, unless you're a genius or an executive, your choices are severely limited as far as startups go.

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