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I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

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Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#171

Post by BuildTheRobots »

tim333 wrote: post #165
BuildTheRobots wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked into it in the past and keep looking at atleast a £500 cost -usually more if you want O2, CO, CO2, H25 (I think those were the ones I decided I was interested in).... and _then_ there's the certification cost, so I really can't justify it (though I'd love to). My friends dad used to be a safety inspector duwnt' pit in the 70's and he's been trying to convince me to get an old Davy Lamp and to just pay att…

Alibaba's got them from about $150 single gas http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/NEW-K60-handheld-0-200... $400 multi http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Portable-diffussion-ty...

Nice find -thank you :)

Though I'm somewhat wary about buying potentially life critical systems from AliExpress -especially when I have no idea how I'd go about testing, never-mind certifying it :)

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#172

Post by BuildTheRobots »

e12e wrote: post #169
BuildTheRobots wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked into it in the past and keep looking at atleast a £500 cost -usually more if you want O2, CO, CO2, H25 (I think those were the ones I decided I was interested in).... and _then_ there's the certification cost, so I really can't justify it (though I'd love to). My friends dad used to be a safety inspector duwnt' pit in the 70's and he's been trying to convince me to get an old Davy Lamp and to just pay att…

Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!

Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave.

I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a PPM reading [1]) though I'm still wary of it giving a false sense of security and me then missing something else just as hazardous. Once again, Davy Lamp might be the solution to this -apparently the flame goes out when there's 17% oxygen or less, which is still life supporting.

[1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mudder-Carbon-Monoxide-Alarm-Detecto...

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#173

Post by eddyg »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #164
Swannie wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. This is also well known in the amateur caving community too, who follow similar practices to those outlined by yourself. I too find this crazy. As they say in the diving industry about water and confined spaces: a deceptively easy way to die.

I've just realised that the word document linked to actually seems to be dated 1974 (google makes it seem possible that the incident was 1971). It doesn't excuse anything but I like to think we've gotten a bit better since then. I get the impression in caving circles at least, "bad air" is much better understood these days. (irrelevant, but for the record, cave diving scares the pants off've me =) )

An PDF scan[1] shows that it's from the Vol. 11, No. 3 ("Spring 1966") issue of "Michigan's Occupational Health".

[1] http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_miosha_moh_bulle...

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#174

Post by engi_nerd »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #71
bostonpete wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the accident in question happened nearly 50 years ago. Who knows what kind of training was in place at the time or even how well understood this sort of problem was.

"Little House on the Prairie" has a scene where the father digs a well and tests the air downhole with a candle. That's awareness of the danger in a literary work more than 100 years ago. Farmers and well-diggers have been aware of the phenomenon for centuries , it's inconceivable that a fireman of the mid-20th century didn't know how to defend himself against the danger.

I sincerely hope that you do not judge yourself as harshly as you judge others.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#175

Post by abandonliberty »

benten10 wrote: post #18
iheartmemcache wrote: post #8

Not in petrochemicals, but neither is this is this reporter. I get it, it's supposed to be a joke, but it's such a poorly executed one fraught with so many major components glossed over that it detracts from any humor the article could have had. When the Onion writes something, it's humor is wonderful because not only the wit is there but there are few if any inconsistencies even for pedants who dissect things such a…

To reply with the response such posts usually get: You must be really fun at parties! This post was entertaining to most of us because we are not in the industry, knew little about the presence of hydrogen sulfide, and did not realize that the industry was so reluctant to sell to random interested buyers. Yes they could have written "This reporter tried to buy a barrel of oil, but sellers were reluctant, and it was c…

In a world where journalism ethics and standards take a back seat to laughs or more clicks, I keep coming back to hn because you can find knowledgeable comments to help you understand what's going on.

Sure, people could communicate more effectively. Would we be more forgiving of the comment were the article a (slightly) ignorant joke about a topic hackers are passionate about?

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#176

Post by jdietrich »

comex wrote: post #4

Another notable excerpt from the linked state safety agency document ( http://www.michigan.gov/documents/cis_wsh_cet5041_90142_7.do... ): -- Two employees of a fertilizer company in Riga, Michigan, were assigned to install a new float valve in an old 35-foot deep cistern for a new 300-foot well. This cistern was covered with a concrete slab with entry through a covered manhole. The first worker entered the cistern an…

These kinds of multiple fatalities are remarkably common - 60% of people who die in confined spaces were attempting to rescue someone else.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/86-110/

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#178

Post by e12e »

BuildTheRobots wrote: post #172
e12e wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact about CO, that may sometimes be overlooked: not only is it odourless and poisonous - but it's also highly flammable!

Yeah, that's a very good point. It was suggested by an acquaintance that I just throw a lit sparkler down the hole before entering, which _almost_ made sense -though if I ever do manage to find a pocket of CO then it's going to make one heck of a mess.... Davy Lamp time it is then -big flame == big trouble and time to leave. I might have to start taking a household CO detector with me (the cheap ones now even have a…

You know, if you're doing work, or going into enclosed spaces, you really should just get the best gas detector you can get your hands on. It's a lot better than dying.

I worked for a short time at an installation that refurbished small oil rigs. It's about the worst kind of modern work environment: lots of poisonous substances (eg. heavy oil/crude leftovers), welding in closed spaces, tight crawlspaces and the whole thing is a basically a set of Faraday cages, so both VHF and cell reception is pretty bad.

Basically when you opened up a tank, you'd first have someone lower down a high precession meter to sample it over 12 hours. If that looked good, you have at least two gas meters per team, and the team is in constant contact with someone outside (either by said crappy VHF, and/or supplemented with a rope - pull the rope every minute - sound the alarm if the signalling stops, and send in a rescue team. If you figure an excellent 5 minutes from alarm to the team is inside, that's 6 minutes without air).

Worst accident we had was due to faulty documentation: a rig had stopped over and done an undocumented paint job. A team was repainting that section, on the inside of an enclosed space (a shaft) while another team was doing hot work (welding and/or cutting) on the outside. The old paint on the inside had cadmium in it - the result was 5-7 people airlifted to the hospital with cyanide poisoning.

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#179

Post by david-given »

e12e wrote: post #170
david-given wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can throw a match into an open cup of cold diesel and it'll go out. But if the cup gets hot, diesel vapour will start coming off the top, which will ignite. If you're unlucky it'll produce enough heat to vapourise more diesel, etc. Also, if you let the cold diesel touch cloth, it'll get wicked up, and the diesel-soaked cloth will ignite really easily. That will in turn generate enough heat to etc. The same applie…

Ah, fond memories of playing with candles. Make enough "wick" of thin metal wire, and at some point the flame will boil off gases from the candle/pool of melting paraffin wax. At this point, cheap glassware will likely crack from the heat -- spilling hot wax over the table, likely igniting it - best advice is to quench the flame before it gets to that. Or so I've heard.

Fun fact: standard cheapo tea lights make great fire lighters, because they burn reliably and provide a static heat source for a long period of time. Put one under a piece of wood and it'll most likely catch fire eventually.

A short time later the wax in the tea light melts. Than it boils. Then you get (briefly) a pillar of flame...

Re: I Tried to Buy an Actual Barrel of Crude Oil

#180

Post by tripzilch »

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but about the profit angle. This is her job, right? Doing research on stuff and writing an article about it. Given the other arguments in the article, I think it would be fair to say the pay for the article should also factor into the profit/less equation :)
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