Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign • Hacker News Board

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#221

Post by mc32 » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 6:08 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #49

oldmanjay wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily for humanity, we have people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, and an adventurous can-do sensibility drives us all onward.

Unfortunately for humanity, we have other people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised because they are, in fact, ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, but has the virtue of mitigating disaster. And an adventurous can-do sensibility drives people onwards in all directions, including off cliffs. Ralph Nader is also a pretty compelling guy, on paper. In practic…

Don't lay the blame at his feet. Just as Bushies can't blame Perot for Clinton.

No, everyone deserves the votes they get (earned). He deserved those votes as much as Gore or Bush deserved the votes they got. Lest we forget, the congress with lots of Dems voted for the war. So, no, no politician can claim another "stole" "their" vote. They only get the votes they deserve by which I mean the ones they win fair and square. Nader won his votes fair and square.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#222

Post by wfo » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 6:29 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #200

chillwaves wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a team wins in football, don't you only count the final field goal that decided the game? Or do the other 60 minutes count too? Gore lost his home state but Nader cost him the election. Gore wanted a partial recount in Florida (when a full recount would have been in his favor) but Nader cost him the election. Curse those Green party voters for not falling in line!

Nader sapped support from Gore throughout the entire election. Again, the problem isn't that it's wrong to run for President. The issue is that if you know you're pulling support in a close election, and you have no chance of winning, then it becomes legitimate to ask whether the point you're trying to make by running is worth the cost.

Our electoral system is broken in that it doesn't allow voters to reasonably express preferences which aren't one of the two mainstream options because of this spoiler effect. I'm not sure what the correct answer is, to complain about how "both parties are terrible" and vote for the mainstream party anyway and get more of the same and know that it will never change or to vote how you actually feel knowing that the system is rigged against allowing you to do that. I can't really fault someone for doing either.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#223

Post by akulbe » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 6:50 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #73

dankohn1 wrote: post #34

I supported Lessig's presidential campaign monetarily, even though I never thought he had a snowball's chance and also didn't think that his model of affecting change was fully thought through. As entrepreneurs, I think many of us can sympathize with the idea of knowing that there is a huge, massive problem that needs to be fixed, without necessarily having the solution fully formed. It would have been so easy for Le…

Serious question: given that he didn't have a snowball's chance, why did you give him money, as opposed to giving money to some other change agent that does have a chance?

There are no other change agents. Everyone else is just more of the same. Career politicians.

It's going to take someone who doesn't go with the flow, to make any real, lasting change.

Inertia is a bitch.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#224

Post by exclusiv » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 8:25 AM UTC

oldmanjay wrote: post #46

smacktoward wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, how I hate this quote. It's TR justifying his own worst qualities -- his impetuousity, his willingness to wade into things without thinking them through. Two years after he made that speech ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic ) he would wade into the 1912 Presidential election, where his major accomplishment was splitting the Republican vote and therefore handing the election to the Democra…

Luckily for humanity, we have people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, and an adventurous can-do sensibility drives us all onward.

This is almost exclusively an American ideal. Our founding was based on being ill-advised. I love that. Sometimes you have to be rogue.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#225

Post by uououuttt » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 9:35 AM UTC

Bud wrote: post #187

jfager wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the actual voting record, on the most serious issues, she's about on par with the worst president of the modern era. Cruz and Trump would be worse, sure, but not by "a million times", more like 2x. Four years of letting Republicans remind everyone how terrible they are at governing for a chance to be rid of Clinton for good and take back Congress and the White House in 2020? Maybe worth it.

You seem to be deeply confused. Hillary casting a pro forma vote for something does not equate in any way with initiating the thing in question. Deep down, you know this, of course. You know it's blatantly silly for you to say that Hillary Clinton is "on par" with W. But somehow your filter just failed to kick in.

I agree that she is on par with Bush, honestly. She's been central to an administration that has conducted just as much war and added just as much debt as Bush's.

And I would also pick Trump over her, if only out of sheer morbid curiosity.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#226

Post by zeckalpha » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 10:20 AM UTC

13thLetter wrote: post #217

zeckalpha wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more like "I was unable to climb this mountain because I couldn't breathe" to "Let's pack oxygen tanks".

No, I like my simile better. Nothing and nobody will stop you from bringing oxygen tanks on your climb, and learning to use them is relatively straightforward. Changing the system of campaign finance in the United States, on the other hand, requires navigating dozens of immensely complex special interests, will be opposed by one or both major parties, and we haven't even gotten to what the courts might say yet. It's…

Sounds like Lesterland.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#227

Post by interesting_att » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 11:36 AM UTC

It's a pity on how he started the campaign by saying he would resign after day 1.

Looking at the public's interest in 'outsiders' this political season (Carson, Trump, Fiorina) and the lack of any real opposition towards Hillary outside of Bernie, Lessig actually did have a chance of getting his voice heard.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#228

Post by xcavier » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:08 PM UTC

Spoken like an academic.

He was never a serious contender. His angle was as an independent agitator.

Ralph Nader was never a chance, but he changed America based on his campaign tactics (which I personally disagreed with - he split the Democratic vote).

Lessig needs a dose of 'junkyard dog'.

This setback could have been the fillip a better, more aggressive candidate would welcome.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#229

Post by MagnumOpus » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 12:35 PM UTC

mbesto wrote: post #183

michael_nielsen wrote: post #29

With all the critical "I-told-you-sos", this seems like a good time to quote Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, beca…

A perhaps more concise quote would be: There has never been a statue erected to honor a critic.

More concise, but incorrect. Witness the Roger Ebert statue in Champaign, IL:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/apr/25/roger-ebert-film...

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#230

Post by beat » Tue, Nov 03, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

EdSharkey wrote: post #157

beat wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can agree with that. I think it's a matter of interpretation. While they latch on to big-government things, the language is a phrasing of hostility, and the governing is borderline sabotage and hostage-taking. The shutdown crises suck.

Yeah, they sortof suck, but we're 20T in the hole and 9% of the federal budget goes to debt service. That sucks more! When do the rabble on the right who instigate these debt showdowns get to be the righteous good guys instead of demons? Do we really need to spiral down to some catastrophe before we wake up and make a change here? It's the banksters accumulating most of the power with this debt here. I suspect the le…

Because a debt showdown would do FAR more damage to the economy than debt servicing. Default due to petulance is NOT appropriate behavior for the most important currency in the world. The showdowns aren't policy, they're grandstanding. I don't like politicians playing chicken with the global economy because they find some things distasteful. If they cared that much about debt, they could actually, you know, raise taxes.