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Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

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Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#41

Post by vidarh »

smacktoward wrote: post #28
alex_young wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if he somehow won the election, he still would not have the power to change congress (or the Citizen's United ruling) one bit. I've heard similar variations of this theme a lot recently, and I'm not sure I buy it. Wouldn't any victory necessarily include a major sea change in congress? It doesn't seem likely to me that Lessig or Sanders, or would be voted in without some down ballot support finding the way in…

> Wouldn't any victory necessarily include a major sea change in congress? No, not really. Barack Obama's 2008 victory only came with very very very slim Democratic majorities in both houses, for instance, and then those got overturned two years later. This myth that a presidential candidate can sweep huge Congressional majorities into office on his coattails is derived from exactly one real-life example: FDR's victo…

I agree with you it's probably not necessary. But Obama in an exceedingly bad example in that respect:

Obama is firmly in the centre of the current US political landscape. You can be a moderate Republican and be to the left of Obama on many issues. That's presumably a large part of why he won, and why so many "progressives" have been disappointed at the lack of change.

The shift from Bush to Obama was a tiny shift compared to what going from Obama to Sanders would be.

Now, I'm inclined to think this means Sanders doesn't have a chance rather than think that there'll be a massive shift in Congress, but if Sanders wins without a massive shift in Congress that would be truly bizarre indication of voters voting purely on personality rather than policy.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#42

Post by tinco »

I'm not a citizen of the U.S. so maybe I'm missing something. Why is he not just switching to the Republican party? What's this nonsense about his ideals being more in line with the democrats? I thought the Republicans were all about the founding fathers and making sure the United States are not ruled by the old-rich?

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#43

Post by WildUtah »

gkoberger wrote: post #8
scrollaway wrote: post #2

Can someone give me a rundown of how anyone expected anything different to come out of this? Polling at 0% isn't exactly fixed by a televised debate. Sanders is competing with Hillary on a fairly close scale and yet a lot of people still say he has no chance (though I definitely think he does at this point, but I'm not a US citizen so...), so what could possibly happen with Lessig?

Lessig never wanted to be president; he wanted a podium. But you can't say that. If he indicated he wasn't serious about being president in any way, they never would have let him on stage. That being said, I think it's shameful he hasn't endorsed Sanders. Lessig acts like he's the only one working on it. Whether or not you like Sanders, he is the only viable candidate whose core issue is overturning Citizens United.…

Lessig's agenda wasn't to overturn Citizens United, it was public financing of campaigns. Nobody --not Sanders nor Lessig -- is going to push that through Congress any time soon.

Citizens United is probably doomed under Clinton if she's elected, no less than under Sanders. Demographically Kennedy, Scalia, or Thomas is likely to be replaced in the next five years and very likely in the next nine and CU hangs by a single vote on the Supreme Court.

Of course, reversing CU will actually make things worse from Lessig's stated perspective. With less independent money and with outside voices silenced, politicians will either be more entrenched with special interests or forced to spend even more time raising money from business executives. Unless you have a full restructuring of the system with public financing, most any plausible change isn't going to improve things.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#45

Post by hugh4 »

s73v3r wrote: post #32
ermacaz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to poll above 0% when your only issue is being against freedom of speech

Citizens United is not freedom of speech.

The Supreme Court has held that it is, and if you want to argue against it then that's fine, but you need a better argument than "nuh uh".

How many of the folks who argue against the Citizens United ruling have actually read it and understand the legal basis for it?

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#46

Post by oldmanjay »

smacktoward wrote: post #39
michael_nielsen wrote: post #29

With all the critical "I-told-you-sos", this seems like a good time to quote Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, beca…

God, how I hate this quote. It's TR justifying his own worst qualities -- his impetuousity, his willingness to wade into things without thinking them through. Two years after he made that speech ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic ) he would wade into the 1912 Presidential election, where his major accomplishment was splitting the Republican vote and therefore handing the election to the Democra…

Luckily for humanity, we have people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, and an adventurous can-do sensibility drives us all onward.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#47

Post by tptacek »

He hasn't ended his Presidential campaign. He's ended his bid for the Democratic nomination. David Weigel at WaPo asked him if he would run (pointlessly) as an independent; Lessig would (unsurprisingly) not rule that out. Note that he is still taking donations.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#48

Post by Shivetya »

s73v3r wrote: post #32
ermacaz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its hard to poll above 0% when your only issue is being against freedom of speech

Citizens United is not freedom of speech.

Actually it is. For when you show willingness to silence one form of speech by anyone you forever give up your right to form any association to do similar.

While many of us do not like all the money in politics how people assemble to pool that money should not be the concern. The concern should be and always should be how politicians routinely ignore the rule of law and Constitution and twist the words to deliver the outcome they desire.

If anything, they would love restricting who can put money into politics as all their personal avenues of funding are protected.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#49

Post by tptacek »

oldmanjay wrote: post #46
smacktoward wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, how I hate this quote. It's TR justifying his own worst qualities -- his impetuousity, his willingness to wade into things without thinking them through. Two years after he made that speech ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_in_a_Republic ) he would wade into the 1912 Presidential election, where his major accomplishment was splitting the Republican vote and therefore handing the election to the Democra…

Luckily for humanity, we have people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, and an adventurous can-do sensibility drives us all onward.

Unfortunately for humanity, we have other people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised because they are, in fact, ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, but has the virtue of mitigating disaster. And an adventurous can-do sensibility drives people onwards in all directions, including off cliffs.

Ralph Nader is also a pretty compelling guy, on paper. In practice, he turns out to be the reason we invaded Iraq.

Re: Lessig Ends Presidential Campaign

#50

Post by oldmanjay »

tptacek wrote: post #49
oldmanjay wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily for humanity, we have people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, and an adventurous can-do sensibility drives us all onward.

Unfortunately for humanity, we have other people who are willing to take action that others would find ill-advised because they are, in fact, ill-advised. Risk aversion does not make for incredible discoveries, but has the virtue of mitigating disaster. And an adventurous can-do sensibility drives people onwards in all directions, including off cliffs. Ralph Nader is also a pretty compelling guy, on paper. In practic…

Absolutely true, so long as humanity is made of billions of individuals all pulling in their own direction, there will be risk, disaster, death, destruction, and amazing advancement.

I find the last worth all the preceding.

edit: missed some words

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