Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if arbitration clauses are not a problem at all? There is a great deal of contradictory evidence with respect to whether arbitration is more or less favorable to consumers and employees (though it is definitely very bad for class-action lawyers). But even if we assume for the purpose of argument that consumers always lose disputes which are arbitrated, they may be willing to make that trade in exchange for reduc…
That's a good point. One could just argue that in time consumers will just favor contracts with companies that either don't have arbitration clauses or if they do the consumer doesn't care anyway about losing potential disputes. I think it's only really a problem when a company holds a (quasi) monopoly in a certain business. Like telcos do in the US in many states.
Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
131–139 of 139 posts
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Turning into "not a contract" is a legal effect, though, and typically it's the desired one. When there's a EULA or similar, the company is trying to form a contract with you, usually with lots of unfair terms. If replacing the text with your own and clicking a button that you renamed from Agree to Disagree voids the whole thing, well, mission accomplished. There would only be a problem if the law says that not only…
"voiding the whole thing" means you don't have a license to the software either.
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
In New York (and, for all I know, everywhere else -- IANAL), city laws prevent you from signing away certain rights in a lease because shady landlords kept sneaking waivers in. For example, you can legally withhold rent if your landlord does not keep your property in a livable state. Many leases have provisions specifically waiving your right to withhold rent, but such provisions are legally enforceable. There could…
Did you mean "legally un enforceable"?
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would it work?
Upon defection of a click-through license (probably doable, given the formal language of legal contracts), examine the text for arbitration clause with opt-out text, and pop up a little dialog or sidebar that says "click here to opt out of the arbitration clause". That might require manual identification of how to do so initially, but I could imagine building contract signatures so that the process could be further a…
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#135http://www.creators.com/opinion/jim-hightower/corporate-kang...
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Upon defection of a click-through license (probably doable, given the formal language of legal contracts), examine the text for arbitration clause with opt-out text, and pop up a little dialog or sidebar that says "click here to opt out of the arbitration clause". That might require manual identification of how to do so initially, but I could imagine building contract signatures so that the process could be further a…
What's preventing the companies from then simply dropping you as a client?
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shady landlords try this all the time.
In New York (and, for all I know, everywhere else -- IANAL), city laws prevent you from signing away certain rights in a lease because shady landlords kept sneaking waivers in. For example, you can legally withhold rent if your landlord does not keep your property in a livable state. Many leases have provisions specifically waiving your right to withhold rent, but such provisions are legally enforceable. There could…
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shady landlords try this all the time.
In New York (and, for all I know, everywhere else -- IANAL), city laws prevent you from signing away certain rights in a lease because shady landlords kept sneaking waivers in. For example, you can legally withhold rent if your landlord does not keep your property in a livable state. Many leases have provisions specifically waiving your right to withhold rent, but such provisions are legally enforceable. There could…
Re: Arbitration Everywhere, Stacking the Deck of Justice
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was a class action lawyer for several years. There is a great deal of definitive evidence that arbitration clauses undermine the purposes of class proceedings, those purposes being: 1. increased access to justice (i.e. one may be automatically included in a successful claim, as opposed to seeking prospective reward through a potentially lengthy and expensive adjudication); 2. lowering of overall cost of adjudicatio…
>> behavioural correction requires a certain percentage of individuals to bring and succeed in their cases No it doesn't. Both the extensive use of the class form and punitive damages (or close substitutes) are virtually unique to the United States. Ad hoc regulation by an entrepreneurial plaintiff's bar acting without meaningful client input is not the not the only effective means to regulate businesses. On the cont…
> No it doesn't.
It is necessary for class proceedings to induce behavioural modification, which is what we are talking about here. There are other means to bring about behavioural correction, but that was beyond the scope of my comments.
> Both the extensive use of the class form and punitive damages (or close substitutes) are virtually unique to the United States.
At least a dozen states have class procedures, but you may be right on punitive damages. Canada is quite close, but punitive measures are handed out sparingly.
>> Ad hoc regulation by an entrepreneurial plaintiff's bar acting without meaningful client input is not the not the only effective means to regulate businesses.
I partially agree; class proceedings are a poor substitute for regulation. However, a few points. First, in tandem with victim compensation and reduced litigation costs, some argue the behavioural modification aspect from financial consequence can act as a check-and-balance that requires no arbitrary intervention by the government to correct and prevent wrongdoing.
Second, class action are procedural in nature and the substance of the case must be founded on existing laws – often common law torts, but sometimes regulatory or administrative. The cost of enforcement via a class proceeding is relieved from the public purse, and no additional rights are conferred on victims by way of a class proceeding – only the vehicle for exercising those rights is modified.
Third, regulators are often not as aligned with victims as plaintiff lawyers in class proceedings. It is not unheard of, and in some places quite common, for regulators to be hired by the very institutions they are charged with regulating.
Moreover, one can gauge the effectiveness of the class proceeding in behavioural modification by observing the broad resistance to it, namely the widespread introduction of arbitration clauses. Perhaps not the behaviour it was intended to modify, but that itself speaks to the point.
> On the contrary, plenty of countries arguably do a better job without the use of them at all.
I tend to agree, depending on the circumstances, but it is a hotly contested point.